Don Coryell (1 Viewer)

[bobad]

They are typically at or near the top ten in time of possession each season.

Well, we do win some games.

 

[St.Dan]

Developed the offense the Saints have run since 2006.

Hasn't made it to the Hall of Fame despite leading the NFL in passing 6 straight years.

Reason Why

He could never build a defense to match his prolific offense to get to the super bowl

His team was lead by a HOF QB Dan Fouts, HOF TE, HOF WR

He had a 5'6" scat back ( original sproles role) with 1000 yards receiving in a season
stout OL

Never featured the running game.

He would move his RBs and TEs all over at the line of scrimmage to see what coverage defense was using.

HOF pocket passer prime until retirement.

Really interesting stuff to read about.




Reading air coryell, Dan fouts, chargers seasons 78-85 ,Don coryell

Shows the difficulty of building a defense around this offense

Hmmm. Not sure Chuck Muncie was a 5-6 scatback.

1981 San Diego Chargers Statistics & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Now, Lionel James was a smallish RB from their late 80s teams, but that was after the rest of the offense had slowed down and they weren't good enough to make the playoffs again for a while.

 

[zigzag]

It's actually a really good analogy, as Drew Brees is essentially Dan Fouts with the ring.

Two points though, that I feel separate Payton from Don Coryell.

First of all, Sean Payton has a much better postseason record. Coryell was an innovator, and put up incredible numbers, but he didn't win enough when the chips were down.

Secondly, New Orleans doesn't have a problem with complacency. If anything, they've been over aggressive at trying to fix the issues that the team has had. In hindsight, they should have left well enough alone with Jenkins and Harper in the secondary, but they decided to go in a different direction to hopefully give them that boost they felt was necessary to get over the hump. Byrd obviously hasn't worked out like we all had hoped, but that doesn't change the fact that an aggressive move was made to try and improve what they determined to be a weak spot on on



Having said that, I think it's a travesty that Don Coryell is not in the Hall of Fame. Look at his coaching tree, and see all of the people who were assisted by his coaching style, and who took his offense and utilized it to win Super Bowls. Yes, he did take some of Sid Gillman's concepts and expound upon them, and in some people's eyes that takes away his title as an innovator. But what he did with those concepts changed the face of football, and it's greatly contributed to the game that we have today that is so popular.

Payton had a blueprint to work with. 7 years of trial and error to learn from.


Nobody has been able to have sustained success.

Rams made the Super Bowl back to back, but only 1 win. (Martz could've had more if he didn't hate TEs so much.)


Saints have had 2 opportunities.
Once you have succeeded , teams are better prepared the next time you play them.Teams game plan for a track meet and put more pressure on your defense.
Some just videotape your practice.

 

[zigzag]

Hmmm. Not sure Chuck Muncie was a 5-6 scatback.

1981 San Diego Chargers Statistics & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Now, Lionel James was a smallish RB from their late 80s teams, but that was after the rest of the offense had slowed down and they weren't good enough to make the playoffs again for a while.

I was talking about James. His best season was 1985
Chargers were still the highest scoring team.

Was pointing out everything SP has done in this offense has already been done.

 

[crosswatt]

Payton had a blueprint to work with. 7 years of trial and error to learn from.


Nobody has been able to have sustained success.

Rams made the Super Bowl back to back, but only 1 win. (Martz could've had more if he didn't hate TEs so much.)


Saints have had 2 opportunities.
Once you have succeeded , teams are better prepared the next time you play them.Teams game plan for a track meet and put more pressure on your defense.
Some just videotape your practice.

Sustained sucess as in winning seasons or multiple Super Bowls?

 

[zigzag]

Sustained sucess as in winning seasons or multiple Super Bowls?

Multiple Super Bowls


Forgot about Washington.


You can win multiple super bowls with this offense

 

[St.Dan]

This right here. We burn clock with the short passing game the same way run first teams burn clock with the running game.

Indeed, and when true "complementary football" happens (winning field position battles, enough stops on D), we win. That was happening until we gave up the 70-yard run.

 

[crosswatt]

Super Bowls

Dynasty

To be honest, with the three recent dynasties, only one was without serious questions about impropriety.

The 49ers blatantly ignored the salary cap.

The Cowboys (who won two of their 1990's era Super Bowls with Ernie Zampese as the offensive coordinator) were mostly clean. On the field anyway.

The Bills were on the cusp of being dynastic, but that missed field goal set the 0-4 Championship streak in motion. They were running the K-Gun at the time. Not valid to the conversation, but I felt they were mentioning due to the offensive system.

The Patriots have two big dings against them, undercut by the involvement of Goodell, but still chatter about them not doing everything above board.

Winning the Super Bowl isn't easy, and I think that we forget that sometimes, and look for reasons why our team didn't repeat. But it really is the norm, and not the exception.

 

[Caleb462]

Winning the Super Bowl isn't easy, and I think that we forget that sometimes, and look for reasons why our team didn't repeat. But it really is the norm, and not the exception.

THIS times a million. We are always so quick to try to make these big conclusions and point to things that are supposed to be meaningful patterns - without considering some simple facts like the one you state above. Winning the Super Bowl is really difficult no matter what, luck and random chance play a significant role in success, the nfl is a zero sum game so not winning does not necessarily signal incompetence - even if all 32 teams were functioning at an extremely high level from top to bottom, you would still have losers. Granted I know that we have poorly run or at least mediocre franchises in the NFL, but it seems that no one ever considers the zero-sum factor when trying to evaluate winning and losing. There's also the fact that in the larger scheme of things, 50 seasons is really not that much of a sample size - what looks like meaningful trends or patterns over a 50 year span might be completely contradicted or just seem like noise after another 50 years. There are a lot of factors people don't think about. Nonetheless we assign blame and make judgements like we know exactly how all this stuff works.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

If you have an offense that is based on route concepts that get WR's open and can make water out of wine so long as the QB is elite and the WR's can catch and uses the pass to set up the run it would seem to me that the most important positions on the offense would be QB,T,RB. QB because you need the PG. T because he's going to need the protection. RB because its going to be the hardest position to play because they need to be able to Run, Catch, and Block to be a factor in the offense.

A committee approach would only serve to hamstring the offense when one style of runner goes down.


The 2006 offense with average WR's (Colston wasn't who he'd become just yet and neither was Devery and Lance Moore was still on the PS while Meachem still in college) was still very very good....because of its 1000yd Rusher and its QB/Coach combo. The Oline was average, the WR's were average, the QB was elite and the Playcaller was Elite, and the two RB's were elite. They combined for 1622 rushing yards and 940 passing yards. Combine total of 2562 all purpose yards.

For comparisons sake...the best years we've had from our two top receivers in our prime years of Colston/Graham in 2011 only combined for 2453 yards and thats on an offense that passes the ball above 60% of the time.


I'd really like to see what an all around back like Leveon Bell or David Johnson could do in this offense just once before Payton ceases coaching this team.

 

[Freshcakes]

This is an interesting argument. The common belief is that paying a qb elite money
makes it almost impossible to surround him with a good defense.


But watching teams like buffalo field good defenses makes that inaccurate.
They pay tyrod Taylor 20m and their defense is very solid.