Down 10 with 8:03 left, Saints go on a 13-play, 5:11 drive (1 Viewer)

superchuck500

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Given how the Panthers were playing this, I don't fault the team for running the ball. But look at the time between plays (higlighted in bold).

New Orleans Saints at 08:03
1-10-NO 24
(8:03) (Shotgun) 34-T.Hightower left tackle to NO 24 for no gain (95-C.Johnson; 20-K.Coleman).
2-10-NO 24
(7:33) (40 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 83-W.Snead to NO 32 for 8 yards (27-R.McClain; 33-T.Boston). PENALTY on CAR-59-L.Kuechly, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at NO 24 - No Play.
1-10-NO 29
(7:13)(clock stopped - penalty) 34-T.Hightower right end to NO 34 for 5 yards (33-T.Boston).
2-5-NO 34
(6:41)(32 seconds) 34-T.Hightower left tackle to NO 37 for 3 yards (95-C.Johnson; 92-V.Butler). Tim Lelito reported as eligible
3-2-NO 37
(6:08))33 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 34-T.Hightower to NO 41 for 4 yards (58-T.Davis).
1-10-NO 41
(5:38)(30 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 13-M.Thomas to CAR 48 for 11 yards (26-D.Worley). Penalty on CAR-26-D.Worley, Defensive Holding, declined.
1-10-CAR 48
(5:26)(clock stopped - penalty)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 10-B.Cooks to CAR 45 for 3 yards (24-J.Bradberry; 27-R.McClain).
2-7-CAR 45
(5:04)(22 seconds - no huddle)(No Huddle, Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 34-T.Hightower pushed ob at CAR 37 for 8 yards (26-D.Worley).
1-10-CAR 37
(4:56)(clock stopped - OB)(Shotgun) 34-T.Hightower right tackle to CAR 33 for 4 yards (27-R.McClain; 59-L.Kuechly). CAR-59-L.Kuechly was injured during the play. He is Out.
2-6-CAR 33
(4:20)(36 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 34-T.Hightower to CAR 23 for 10 yards (95-C.Johnson; 33-T.Boston).
1-10-CAR 23
(3:55)(25 seconds - no huddle)(No Huddle, Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete deep right to 83-W.Snead (24-J.Bradberry). PENALTY on CAR-98-S.Lotulelei, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at CAR 23 - No Play.
1-5-CAR 18
(3:49)(clock stopped - penalty))(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 13-M.Thomas pushed ob at CAR 9 for 9 yards (58-T.Davis).
1-9-CAR 9
(3:43)(clock stopped - OB)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 83-W.Snead to CAR 3 for 6 yards (55-D.Mayo).
2-3-CAR 3
(3:43) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NO-64-Z.Strief, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CAR 3 - No Play.
2-8-CAR 8
(3:01)(42 seconds runs between Snead's catch at the 6 and the next completed play)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short left to 89-J.Hill (94-K.Ealy).
3-8-CAR 8
(2:56)(clock stopped inc)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 82-C.Fleener for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-W.Lutz extra point is GOOD, Center-47-J.Drescher, Holder-6-T.Morstead.
NO 20 CAR 23 Plays: 13 Possession: 5:11


If you take out the clock stoppages, you have nine plays. Two of them were run from the no huddle, but even those took 22 and 25 seconds. For the remaining seven plays, the average time to snap was 34 seconds.

When Carolina got the ball back, there was 2:47 and the Saints had two timeouts. This meant that unless Carolina stopped the clock with incompletions or out-of-bounds, or by penalties, they only needed one third-down conversion to basically milk the clock down below 20 seconds.

If the Saints had sped up by a total of 30 seconds, and that's only a bit more than four seconds on each of those seven plays that we huddled on (using an average time of 34 seconds), the Panthers would have had the ball with at least 3:15 left. With two timeouts and the 2-minute warning, you can still surrender at least one 3rd down conversion and get the ball back down 3 with more than a minute . . . rather than the 16 seconds that we ended up with.

Down 3, a minute is more than ample. You can even use the middle of the field if you can get up and spike it. It's a completely different scenario.
 

blackadder

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Given how the Panthers were playing this, I don't fault the team for running the ball. But look at the time between plays (higlighted in bold).

New Orleans Saints at 08:03
1-10-NO 24
(8:03) (Shotgun) 34-T.Hightower left tackle to NO 24 for no gain (95-C.Johnson; 20-K.Coleman).
2-10-NO 24
(7:33) (40 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 83-W.Snead to NO 32 for 8 yards (27-R.McClain; 33-T.Boston). PENALTY on CAR-59-L.Kuechly, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at NO 24 - No Play.
1-10-NO 29
(7:13)(clock stopped - penalty) 34-T.Hightower right end to NO 34 for 5 yards (33-T.Boston).
2-5-NO 34
(6:41)(32 seconds) 34-T.Hightower left tackle to NO 37 for 3 yards (95-C.Johnson; 92-V.Butler). Tim Lelito reported as eligible
3-2-NO 37
(6:08))33 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 34-T.Hightower to NO 41 for 4 yards (58-T.Davis).
1-10-NO 41
(5:38)(30 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 13-M.Thomas to CAR 48 for 11 yards (26-D.Worley). Penalty on CAR-26-D.Worley, Defensive Holding, declined.
1-10-CAR 48
(5:26)(clock stopped - penalty)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 10-B.Cooks to CAR 45 for 3 yards (24-J.Bradberry; 27-R.McClain).
2-7-CAR 45
(5:04)(22 seconds - no huddle)(No Huddle, Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 34-T.Hightower pushed ob at CAR 37 for 8 yards (26-D.Worley).
1-10-CAR 37
(4:56)(clock stopped - OB)(Shotgun) 34-T.Hightower right tackle to CAR 33 for 4 yards (27-R.McClain; 59-L.Kuechly). CAR-59-L.Kuechly was injured during the play. He is Out.
2-6-CAR 33
(4:20)(36 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 34-T.Hightower to CAR 23 for 10 yards (95-C.Johnson; 33-T.Boston).
1-10-CAR 23
(3:55)(25 seconds - no huddle)(No Huddle, Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete deep right to 83-W.Snead (24-J.Bradberry). PENALTY on CAR-98-S.Lotulelei, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at CAR 23 - No Play.
1-5-CAR 18
(3:49)(clock stopped - penalty))(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 13-M.Thomas pushed ob at CAR 9 for 9 yards (58-T.Davis).
1-9-CAR 9
(3:43)(clock stopped - OB)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 83-W.Snead to CAR 3 for 6 yards (55-D.Mayo).
2-3-CAR 3
(3:43) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NO-64-Z.Strief, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CAR 3 - No Play.
2-8-CAR 8
(3:01)(42 seconds runs between Snead's catch at the 6 and the next completed play)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short left to 89-J.Hill (94-K.Ealy).
3-8-CAR 8
(2:56)(5 seconds)(Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 82-C.Fleener for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-W.Lutz extra point is GOOD, Center-47-J.Drescher, Holder-6-T.Morstead.
NO 20 CAR 23 Plays: 13 Possession: 5:11


If you take out the clock stoppages, you have nine plays. Two of them were run from the no huddle, but even those took 22 and 25 seconds. For the remaining seven plays, the average time to snap was 34 seconds.

When Carolina got the ball back, there was 2:47 and the Saints had two timeouts. This meant that unless Carolina stopped the clock with incompletions or out-of-bounds, or by penalties, they only needed one third-down conversion to basically milk the clock down below 20 seconds.

If the Saints had sped up by a total of 30 seconds, and that's only a bit more than four seconds on each of those seven plays that we huddled on (using an average time of 34 seconds), the Panthers would have had the ball with at least 3:15 left. With two timeouts and the 2-minute warning, you can still surrender at least one 3rd down conversion and get the ball back down 3 with more than a minute . . . rather than the 16 seconds that we ended up with.

Down 3, a minute is more than ample. You can even use the middle of the field if you can get up and spike it. It's a completely different scenario.
It's mind boggling and anyone watching it unfold was thinking the same thing, except the Saints coaches on the sideline.
 

insidejob

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I don't fault them for running the ball either. I just don't understand why it couldn't have been done from the no huddle offense. The defense had been doing their job while given awful field position for three full quarters at that point. I almost wondered if they were trying to force themselves into an onside kick at one point since they were just taking their sweet time walking in and out of the huddle.
 
OP
superchuck500

superchuck500

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I don't fault them for running the ball either. I just don't understand why it couldn't have been done from the no huddle offense. The defense had been doing their job while given awful field position for three full quarters at that point. I almost wondered if they were trying to force themselves into an onside kick at one point since they were just taking their sweet time walking in and out of the huddle.
Or at least try to set up two plays at a time from the huddle. Run calls are fairly easy, so you can package a pair of plays and save a lot of time.
 

blackadder

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Just don't get where the no huddle quick tempo capability disappeared to. TGhis isn't the first time it was needed and not employed in recent years.
 

whosyadaddy

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It's like Payton doesn't even see it. Asked about it post game and he just shrugs it off, no significance whatsoever. Both announcers, the national audience, fans both teams, all agree what the hell were you thinking?
 

lapaz

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I was very frustrated watching them take their time. I can't wait to hear Payton's explanation/excuse. My guess is he'll say they took what the defense gave them, but that doesn't excuse being nonchalant. Also sometimes you have to take small chances when you're up against it. Even the last drive was a give away. They could've at least tried a couple of bombs to try to draw a penalty, like every team does against us. The clock would've stopped on the penalty and we would've had a chance.
 

Meachemdat

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Not just that, but no hurrying to the line, no urgency whatsoever and then running through T.O.'s like they were candy.

The team really packed it in as soon as the 3rd quarter started.
Except for the Defense, they looked like they were having fun out there all night.
 

insidejob

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Or at least try to set up two plays at a time from the huddle. Run calls are fairly easy, so you can package a pair of plays and save a lot of time.
Seriously. We've seen this team do just that countless times in the past. Hell, we used to come out running no huddle offense in the second quarter to stick it to teams. I understand that there's a game plan and you want to stick to it because of what you saw on film heading into the week (especially on a 4 day week), but for Christ's sake, the game is getting more and more out of reach with each tick of the clock and you still don't go hurry up?

It showed confidence in the defense to make the stop that they honestly should've made by pressuring Newton on third and ten (another huge question mark...he's awful under pressure, so you stop pressuring him and drop 7 into coverage when the opposite had been working all game long?) but you've got zero margin for error in that case and it lost us the game...as was noted in your OP.

I just don't know what the hell would possess someone to slow the game down when they're down 2 scores with under 10 minutes left in the game. I mean, I do but I don't. Asking for perfection out of your now 26th ranked defense is just a little too much, IMO. (Even though they nearly pulled it off.)
 

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I was going insane as well but i think he knew what he was doing even if you dont agree with it. We know carolina can score fast and his plan was simple.. Shorten the game to one possession and make sure we score..

in all honesty if we could kick a freaking FG without getting it blocked he would have likely kicked one on first down from the 20 and played the game out with far more time to play with.. Bottom line we have a punter who is so hurt he can barely stand, no returner, a sketchy kicker and ZERO coaching on special teams. forcing the game to one possession keeps our worst unit (special teams) off the field as much as possible.
 

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The lack of urgency was infuriating, especially since we likely would have won if given a little more time
 

kcirdor

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Don't forget at the end of half.... NO urgency.
 

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That's been happening for a while. I don't understand the lack of urgency sometimes when this team is down by several touchdowns. Honestly with this offense I don't know why they don't go no huddle and just wear a defense out. Chip Kelley tried and failed but he did not have Brees. I think the Saints could pull it off.
 

Grandadmiral

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I was very frustrated watching them take their time. I can't wait to hear Payton's explanation/excuse. My guess is he'll say they took what the defense gave them, but that doesn't excuse being nonchalant. Also sometimes you have to take small chances when you're up against it. Even the last drive was a give away. They could've at least tried a couple of bombs to try to draw a penalty, like every team does against us. The clock would've stopped on the penalty and we would've had a chance.
In the press conference last night, he was asked directly about the tempo and he said he was ok with the tempo during that drive. I almost threw my laptop I was so ******. :rant:
 

LombardiGras

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I guess that the Saints offense is too complicated to run without huddling? Otherwise I just don't understand, you'd think our high power offense could benefit from pushing the tempo. Especially when time is running out and we are trying to make a comeback.
 

HouseCall

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I think some of the need to huddle was dictated by the fact that the defense took everything away beyond 10 yards. It was essentially locked down. We were having to cherry pick check-downs the entire drive. Noting on the edges was opened and nothing beyond the linebackers was open. We were forced to dink and dunk all night and I believe it was by design from Carolina's defensive game plan.

Carolina was gashed by deep plays the last time we played and they were determined to lock that down -- and they did. All of our drives, save the TD first TD drive in the 4th were multi-play, time-consuming affairs. I really think the Panthers cover-two (which always gives Brees/Payton fits) had Brees and the receivers befuddled. We couldn't get the tempo up because we couldn't find a weakness in what they were doing in the back seven.

It was incredibly frustrating to watch the methodical plodding down field but I got the sense we were unable to call multiple plays and run no-huddle because we were struggling to find gaps and weaknesses.

All that aside -- we don't give them short fields with TOs and blocked FG, we blow that game open. But we did and here we are...
 

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