Drew Brees 4th Down Leap (1 Viewer)

[St.Fury]

It's useful on the goalline, IMO, but considerably more dangerous elsewhere b/c then you're relying on the ref's subjective judgment of when forward progress was stopped. If he pulls the ball back before refs deem his progress is stopped, it's no different than a player who steps across the first down marker, then runs back and gets tackled shy of the marker.

Correct. Because the forward progress rule changes at the goal line. once the ball breaks the plane, the play is over (Assuming the player had full possession.)

 

[sammymvpknight]

Spielman and the other announcer were really making a stink out of that play as if he didn't get the first down.

They made a good point. He voluntarily pulled that ball back without contact.

But in the interest of QB safety, I think it’s fine to have an unwritten rule that they don’t need contact.

 

[Taker597]

They made a good point. He voluntarily pulled that ball back without contact.

But in the interest of QB safety, I think it’s fine to have an unwritten rule that they don’t need contact.

. He got hit on the helmet. They were super salty about it, tho.

 

[Justvisiting]

The forward progress rule reads:
Referee shall blow his whistle or declare the ball dead: ... Whenever he is so held that his forward progress has been stopped.

The Forward Progress of a runner or airborne receiver is the point at which his advance toward his opponent’s goal ends and is the spot at which the ball is declared dead by rule, irrespective of the runner or receiver being pushed or carried backward by an opponent.

 

[neurotik]

The thing that worries me is injury. Especially with Drew still wearing a brace on his thumb. Also that landing looked awkward. Easy for a 40 year old to get injured on that play. Save it for the playoffs

 

[FullMonte]

The forward progress rule reads:
Referee shall blow his whistle or declare the ball dead: ... Whenever he is so held that his forward progress has been stopped.

If I am reading that correctly, it says that simply touching a player is not enough to award forward progress. The rule seems to clearly say that the player needs to actually be physically stopped.

 

[bobad]

NOTE: I'm not saying that Drew did not end up getting the first down, but I'm saying that his leap and reach doesn't automatically make it a first down.

If they stop Drew's leap, they will have to stop other football traditions.

For example, a WR goes out of bounds just short of the line to gain, but reaches the ball over the line and pulls it back. They always give it to them. RB's do this in bounds too. When stopped, they reach the ball out, and pull it back in and they give it to them.

In Drew's case, if he is pushed back by the defense, they will give him forward progress. It would be very hard to ever say the defense didn't stop his forward progress, because they are pushing. Any player can reach out to get progress, then pull the ball back for security.

 

[Noble Saint]

I think technically he should’ve been short since he brought the ball back. Breaking the plane only works on the goal line and didn’t see the defense contact him until after he had pulled the ball back.

 

[J.T.]

I'll say it's sort of like when a player starts their slide, the ball gets spotted where they start their slide, not where they are touched. In the leap over and extending the ball forward, Drew is essentially giving up voluntarily on "forward progress" when he reaches the ball forward and then pulls it back. He's giving himself up as soon as he pulls the ball back. Play's over at that point.

 

[ANKOMA33]

Speaking of refs ...

I've noticed the last 2 games, for whatever reason the Saints D get "phantom" flags on 3rd down only to keep drives alive. Random holding, hands to the face, roughing the passer etc. I watch a TON of football on Sundays & I've never seen another team make a great play/subsequent stop only to have the refs bail out another teams offense as much as the Saints.

I could be way off base but it's like the zebra's are instructed to throw a flag even if it's minimal.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Not if you voluntarily bring the ball back. Just like if you catch a ball past the 1st down marker but run back behind it trying to break it for a bigger play. Forward progress only works for plays where the defense pushes you backwards.

That play works on the goal line because as soon as it crosses the plain the play is over, nothing matters afterwards.

This

 

[Zack Lee]

Seriously? You answered your own question. Sooner or later. In other words it’s still working. And it will exist until it doesn’t.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Speaking of refs ...

I've noticed the last 2 games, for whatever reason the Saints D get "phantom" flags on 3rd down only to keep drives alive. Random holding, hands to the face, roughing the passer etc. I watch a TON of football on Sundays & I've never seen another team make a great play/subsequent stop only to have the refs bail out another teams offense as much as the Saints.

I could be way off base but it's like the zebra's are instructed to throw a flag even if it's minimal.

Maybe not as much, but it happen to detroit against GB....TWICE.

 

[darkhornet]

. He got hit on the helmet. They were super salty about it, tho.

He was not hit on the helmet until after he pulled the ball back. If they had reviewed, the spot would have been the forward-most point after he was touched by the defender. I missed the hit on the helmet as I watched it yesterday, so I had to go back and look. The timing of the hit to the helmet would not have helped him in this case:


Timestamp: 7:41 for the play, in case the link doesn't take you there.

 

[St.Dan]

For years, Walter Payton got away with palming the ball with one hand. The great ones can get away with that sort of thing

And indeed it's a first down when the ball achieves forward progress. It was the call I hoped would be made and indeed it was!