Saints Drew's arm (1 Viewer)

[la. champ1]

It’s not the arm. Guys do not appear to be getting open consistently. Main reason we are losing is the defense. In particular the secondary and safeties.

 

[Grumpy Old Manatee]

Just from my casual observations, I don't think Drew trusts his O-line.

 

[Caradoc]

LOL. it has nothing to do with trusting his OL. He double clutched at least 4 times when he had a clean pocket and wanted to go deep but decided against it. His arm is shot and he knows it. Even the expression on his face during the games shows it.

Payton can talk about deep coverage all he want's but it's just gaslighting. You think nobody ever played deep coverage against Brees before? One of the best downfield passers in the league for over a decade? Three years ago he doesn't double clutch, even when a guy has coverage on him he throws his man open or he threads the needle. All his passing yards now are coming off of short throws and YAC, and it's going to get worse every week as the season goes on.

 

[SystemShock]

Can you elaborate?

Oh, please, no!

 

[dwid]

Drew Brees does not have the arm talent. the last two QB's we have faced are flicking the ball and its flying down the field and at this point is just a methodical passer who dinks and dunks and then second guesses himself when throwing deep.

He's always been a methodical passer taking what the defense gives him. If he has a big reliable target he will throw it up there even when there's little separation like with Thomas and Jimmy Graham. Thomas may not be super big but he is a very physical receiver and will catch those passes in tight windows. We see he has that trust in Cook but he is frequently injured. As fast as Harris is he is only 5'6 170 and think it's gonna have to be like Devery and have a ton of separation for Drew to pull the trigger and I just haven't seen that consistently from him. Not to mention he does have a considerable amount of drops for the small amount of touches as a return man, not sure how he is in practice but I don't see trust from Brees.

For all the people complaining about a huge portion of his yards coming after the catch, well that's how it's always been since 2006. A majority of his attempts have been to backs and tight ends, even his wideouts have typically excelled at the short to intermediate routes (Colston, Lance Moore, Michael Thomas). Maybe a few intermittent bombs to Henderson (usually had a db super beat) and Meachem (a big fast target that could be expected to come down with a deep lob jump ball). Who do we have like those 2 now? Thomas who is injured, even then the deep routes have never been his game.

 

[Alaina]

People are in for a rude awakening with our next QB. Chances are, we're going to wish we have what we have now.

 

[efil4stnias]

He's always been a methodical passer taking what the defense gives him. If he has a big reliable target he will throw it up there even when there's little separation like with Thomas and Jimmy Graham. Thomas may not be super big but he is a very physical receiver and will catch those passes in tight windows. We see he has that trust in Cook but he is frequently injured. As fast as Harris is he is only 5'6 170 and think it's gonna have to be like Devery and have a ton of separation for Drew to pull the trigger and I just haven't seen that consistently from him. Not to mention he does have a considerable amount of drops for the small amount of touches as a return man, not sure how he is in practice but I don't see trust from Brees.

For all the people complaining about a huge portion of his yards coming after the catch, well that's how it's always been since 2006. A majority of his attempts have been to backs and tight ends, even his wideouts have typically excelled at the short to intermediate routes (Colston, Lance Moore, Michael Thomas). Maybe a few intermittent bombs to Henderson (usually had a db super beat) and Meachem (a big fast target that could be expected to come down with a deep lob jump ball). Who do we have like those 2 now? Thomas who is injured, even then the deep routes have never been his game.

dude we arent even seeing 20-25 yard in-cuts or up-the-seam passes.

the last 20 yard OUT Drew threw Sunday night, was bailed out by Emmanuel Sanders recognizing it was underthrown and getting both hands under the ball just before it skidded off turf.

And to top it off, we have not had a single throw , in 3 games, go past 40 yards that i can remember. ( in the air ) - Thats just no threat to a defense. Our offense works at its best when its dictating the tempo and coverage looks. We cant even get THAT rhythm right.

 

[Alaina]

LOL. it has nothing to do with trusting his OL. He double clutched at least 4 times when he had a clean pocket and wanted to go deep but decided against it. His arm is shot and he knows it. Even the expression on his face during the games shows it.

Payton can talk about deep coverage all he want's but it's just gaslighting. You think nobody ever played deep coverage against Brees before? One of the best downfield passers in the league for over a decade? Three years ago he doesn't double clutch, even when a guy has coverage on him he throws his man open or he threads the needle. All his passing yards now are coming off of short throws and YAC, and it's going to get worse every week as the season goes on.

Huh? One of his premier moves is a double clutch. He uses it to draw safeties away.

 

[dwid]

This again. Similar was said after the Raiders game.

So ... all that needs to be done to defeat a Payton/Brees offense is to play shell coverages? Game after game, opponents take the same part of the field away, and there's no counter to that?

Uh not sure if you noticed but the offense didn't really struggle to score last game. They scored 30, would've gone up more had the Hill fumble not occurred. Unless you expect 40+ points every game. They struggled the Raiders game yea but it was more being off sync and sloppy not really shell coverages, still scored 24 looking like sheet with a careless interception

 

[dwid]

dude we arent even seeing 20-25 yard in-cuts or up-the-seam passes.

the last 20 yard OUT Drew threw Sunday night, was bailed out by Emmanuel Sanders recognizing it was underthrown and getting both hands under the ball just before it skidded off turf.

And to top it off, we have not had a single throw , in 3 games, go past 40 yards that i can remember. ( in the air ) - Thats just no threat to a defense. Our offense works at its best when its dictating the tempo and coverage looks. We cant even get THAT rhythm right.

The first game he threw one to Cook. Big plays don't happen that frequently like you are suggesting (40 air yards). It's just our defense sucks so it happens frequently against us.

Big plays are categorized as over 25 yards and right now we're right in the middle, one more than the Chiefs. the Packers are at 9 and they got a significant portion of those against our defense but somehow Drew is to blame

And yeah I know you're going to say it's a lot of yards after the catch but you're basically criticizing Drew for targeting the one healthy playmaker we have right now that he knows he can rely on to make big plays . Sanders is 33 years old, hasn't had a 1000 yards in 4 years, has always done best as a number 2 guy, has had little time to acclimate in this new offense but is somehow supposed to revert to his 2014 form when he doesn't have another legit wideout to line up opposite of him right now? He had 56 yards last week, which higher than what he averaged per game last year

The play you are referring to he literally had a free rusher in his face during that throw and it was rushed

 

[efil4stnias]

The first game he threw one to Cook. Big plays don't happen that frequently like you are suggesting (40 air yards). It's just our defense sucks so it happens frequently against us.

Big plays are categorized as over 25 yards and right now we're right in the middle, one more than the Chiefs. the Packers are at 9 and they got a significant portion of those against our defense but somehow Drew is to blame

And yeah I know you're going to say it's a lot of yards after the catch but you're basically criticizing Drew for targeting the one healthy playmaker we have right now that he knows he can rely on to make big plays . Sanders is 33 years old, hasn't had a 1000 yards in 4 years, has always done best as a number 2 guy, has had little time to acclimate in this new offense but is somehow supposed to revert to his 2014 form when he doesn't have another legit wideout to line up opposite of him right now? He had 56 yards last week, which higher than what he averaged per game last year

The play you are referring to he literally had a free rusher in his face during that throw and it was rushed

rewind that all 22.

a wheel route is designed and the ball is thrown well before that defender gets to where he is. And in that all 22, what you dont see is Harris is 25 yards upfield - 3 yards ahead of his defender. That happened at 15 yards. When the ball should have been thrown.

Its mental bro. Its not ALL arm issue, but when you dont have confidence in WR or Blocking, the ONE thing you have is arm.

Drew no longer has THAT.

So you combine all that- this is what you get. Dinks and dunks.

Be sure to post the all 22 of the 5 times Drew looks downfield and pulls the ball down. Why? Defenders closing? Thats lack of confidence in WR? Blocking?

No its lack of arm.

oh and that Kamara run....doesnt happen against good tackling teams. Ever. That was thrown 2 yds BEHIND the LOS and if he doesnt shed that tackle, its a 2 yd loss.

If you think he will do that week in, week out, im not sure what to tell you.

But if we dont start pushing the ball downfield, we are in for a very long season of hope.

 

[dwid]

rewind that all 22.

a wheel route is designed and the ball is thrown well before that defender gets to where he is. And in that all 22, what you dont see is Harris is 25 yards upfield - 3 yards ahead of his defender. That happened at 15 yards. When the ball should have been thrown.

Its mental bro. Its not ALL arm issue, but when you dont have confidence in WR or Blocking, the ONE thing you have is arm.

Drew no longer has THAT.

So you combine all that- this is what you get. Dinks and dunks.

Be sure to post the all 22 of the 5 times Drew looks downfield and pulls the ball down. Why? Defenders closing? Thats lack of confidence in WR? Blocking?

No its lack of arm.

oh and that Kamara run....doesnt happen against good tackling teams. Ever. That was thrown 2 yds BEHIND the LOS and if he doesnt shed that tackle, its a 2 yd loss.

If you think he will do that week in, week out, im not sure what to tell you.

But if we dont start pushing the ball downfield, we are in for a very long season of hope.

Kamara made those kinds of plays all the time when healthy

I don't see enough separation to where the defender couldn't close in before the ball got there and Harris being little is not going to out muscle the DB. The other guy is a rookie 13 snap counts. Then you have Alvin and a one-on-one matchup that he is likely to win. I think yea a 2009 Brees would have taken the shot but this is the Brees of the last 4 years and we've had success. Still no guarantee that play is successful had he thrown it

 

[joejr]

Yes, you saw what happened when we started running the ball against that 425 cover 2 shell? That's how you take a team out of that look and stretch the field. Pound them until they start cheating. We had it going last night then suddenly went back to shotgun right when we had them worn down.

This right here. Opposing defensive coaches know that Payton can't help himself. He has got to throw the ball. They know sooner rather than later he will revert to throwing the ball again & abandon the run. This has been a failing of his forever. 2 weeks in a row the Saints run for roughly 100 yards in the first half then nothing in the 2nd! They were never out of either game. Do you realize the play Kamara had on that swing pass? He should have been tackled for a loss but his talent saved that play.

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

Same topic, different day. Brees’ arm is almost 42 years old. He was never the strongest passer, and while he probably can toss it down the field a respectable distance occasionally, it’s a gamble, especially when teams are daring him to. So instead of throwing multiple picks sixes a game, he chooses to just dump it off to Kamara for an easy 8-10 yards. Thomas is his other safety net, and we will be more productive when he returns.

If anyone is holding their breath on Brees deciding to let it fly, I wouldn’t, nor do I think we would like the results. We are what we are as an offense, and it’s a ball-control, dink and dunk offense. The defense was supposed to help carry us this season. It’s why we’ve invested so heavily in it the past 4 years. So far, they are not doing their job. The offense should get better, but we are not going to be the juggernaut we once were.

 

[madake63]

Drew hasn't had much of a deep ball for years so any petition to bench him won't work unless we're scoring less than 20 on a regular basis. He's kind of a historical monument....not likely to be yanked down on a whim.