Elite Quarterbacks (1 Viewer)

Because the college game is absolute trash right now offensively.

College coaches, neglecting to actually coach QBs how to play the position properly, instead have chosen the easy way out by running the read option.

Can't blame the coaches for wanting to win.
 
Well, the answer to the second statement is the first statement being wrong. It's actually the exact opposite. More college offenses are running spread offenses than ever before. Every offseason schools bring in people to add some facet of the spread offense to their playbook. Very few schools actually run a Pro-style offense because it requires acquiring much more talent than most college programs can acquire.

I watch little college football and I have been told that they run more pro style offenses and with so many former NFLers coaching I assumed that it was true

Is it also that the QBs are thrown in before they are truly ready?

Look at all the hate the Rams are getting for not starting Goff, but 20,30, 40 years ago that was the norm

QBs sat their first year or two or three

the developing players versus winning games argument is interesting
 
I watch little college football and I have been told that they run more pro style offenses and with so many former NFLers coaching I assumed that it was true

Is it also that the QBs are thrown in before they are truly ready?

Look at all the hate the Rams are getting for not starting Goff, but 20,30, 40 years ago that was the norm

QBs sat their first year or two or three

the developing players versus winning games argument is interesting

LSU takes a lot of flak for recruiting spread/dual threat quarterbacks but forcing them to run a pro-style offense instead of tailoring the offense around what the QB is good at. That's just one example, but LSU's offense is widely considered outdated for the college game because of the success that teams with much less talent are having running the spread or option offense.
 
It is to be expected with any 'elite' skill. That's what elite means. You are never going to have more than a handful of elite anything.
 
Pop Warner Football Coaching Handbook:
Take your best athlete
Stick him at QB
Run the read option

Repeat for High School, Prep School, and College.
I'm going to disagree with that. I coached Pop Warner for several years, and that was never my philosophy. I took my best athletes and put them on the offensive and defensive lines. I never lost more than 2 games in a season.
 
The word "Elite" makes it a self defining statement.

Its not much different then saying "There are only a handful of Top 3 QBs".

thank you for at least making this statement before letting getting passed 1 page.

by definition there can't be many, and not always 1 either.
 
1.) Do you think Russell Wilson is elite?

2.) Do you think JG of the Pats will become elite after he likely takes over the starting spot after Brady retires, barring injuries of course?

As stated before by another poster, Wilson is on his way to being elite (if not there already). He has won some games for the 'Hawks that they wouldn't have won without him. He hasn't been Drew or Manning, but he has been as impressive as anyone not named Drew or Manning. He isn't Cam, he isn't Rodgers, he isn't Tom, he is Russell Wilson, and I would love to have DangerRuss replacing Drew.

Of all the qb's under 30 right now, if I had to build my team around 1, give me RW.

It is way to early to start talking about JG being elite. Dude just had his cherry popped.
 
The definition of "elite" has become watered down. So basically, "above average" is the new "elite".

2001 Tom Brady was not elite.....neither was 2005 Ben Roethlisberger. Obviously both would prove to be elite later on, but when they won their first SB titles, notsomuch. But somewhere around the time Joe Flacco won a SB, it became decided that SB win = elite QB.
 
The definition of "elite" has become watered down. So basically, "above average" is the new "elite".

2001 Tom Brady was not elite.....neither was 2005 Ben Roethlisberger. Obviously both would prove to be elite later on, but when they won their first SB titles, notsomuch. But somewhere around the time Joe Flacco won a SB, it became decided that SB win = elite QB.


I think that being an elite QB is something demonstrated with top tier success over a period of years. It's not a single-season thing. And just because a QB is "very good" doesn't mean he's elite. Joe Flacco isn't elite on anyone's list that has the definition correct. And people often confuse "franchise QB" with elite. There are certainly QBs that anchor your franchise for years - and those QBs are often very good, but they're not always elite.

Brady is clearly elite, as is Drew Brees and it definitely included Peyton. Ben is more of an argument for me - he's certainly at the top of that "very good" level just below elite, but is he truly elite? Some will say so, and clearly at times he is a top 5 QB in the league - but he isn't nearly as consistent as the three undisputed elites. Ben has just two seasons over 4,300 yards and they were in 2009 and 2014. He has thrown more than 28 TD's just twice and he has never thrown more 32. Part of that is injuries and part of that is system.

Ben is indisputably very good and a textbook franchise QB. Is he truly elite? I think you could make the case either way. I think most would fall on the site of elite and I can see that for sure. But his production isn't in the same atmosphere as the other elites.
 
Andrew Luck was the consensus "next elite" by just about everyone. And he sort of looked the part at first but something is going on with him that seems - at this point - to be more than just physical injuries. And in reality, he has never completed more than 61.7% percent.

If his play doesn't improve, he isn't going to make it to elite.

Oh, it's more than just injuries for sure, but, his injuries do have a lot to do with it. When your injuries affect your throwing motion, that can be quite difficult to deal with. Further though, his team has undergone a number of changes which hurts Luck's ability to get comfortable with the offense. Harrison is gone. Wayne has gone through injuries and struggles himself, and the running game has been hit/miss with an emphasis on miss.

Just a tough set of circumstances Luck has to deal with. He's pretty amazing, but he can't do it by himself.
 
Oh, it's more than just injuries for sure, but, his injuries do have a lot to do with it. When your injuries affect your throwing motion, that can be quite difficult to deal with. Further though, his team has undergone a number of changes which hurts Luck's ability to get comfortable with the offense. Harrison is gone. Wayne has gone through injuries and struggles himself, and the running game has been hit/miss with an emphasis on miss.

Just a tough set of circumstances Luck has to deal with. He's pretty amazing, but he can't do it by himself.

The biggest thing Luck has had to deal with is the fact that the Colts’ GM Ryan Grigson is completely incompetent and actually more than guilty of all of the things that people accuse Payton/Loomis of being on this board all of the time. He focuses on offensive skill positions to the exclusion of both defense and offensive line leaving Luck with a broken and incomplete team to pilot. They could get away with it the first few years because of the rest of the division being trash, but now with the rise of the Texans and incremental improvement of the other two teams Grigson’s weaknesses are being exposed.
 
Are elite QB product of the offensive system in place ?
Montana ? Brees ? Brady ?

Would they have flourished in any other system ? Montana playing for the Saints in place of Hebert ? Brees staying with the Chargers ? Brady playing for the Cleveland Browns ?


I think you need a solid QB to win in this league, but being elite I think is a product of a specific situation (system in place, players around, ...). Everything has to be aligned in my opinion.

Brees was already going to the playoffs and the probowl as a Charger... I think the answer in his case is "Yes!" Would his numbers have been as large -- probably not due to the style of offense, but his QB rating would likely have been higher and his completion percentage as good or better.
 
The definition of "elite" has become watered down. So basically, "above average" is the new "elite".

2001 Tom Brady was not elite.....neither was 2005 Ben Roethlisberger. Obviously both would prove to be elite later on, but when they won their first SB titles, notsomuch. But somewhere around the time Joe Flacco won a SB, it became decided that SB win = elite QB.

I think Russell Wilson's first 4 years in the league are comparable to Roethlisberger's: started almost from the jump and was really impressive in a limited role on a contending team with a dominant defense, then won a SB his second year. After that, the championship backbone of their teams was inevitably dismantled, and in Ben's case, his game developed to the point where he was the centerpiece of the team.

I see Wilson's career taking a similar arc as Ben's, but he still has a lot to prove to get to that level. Ben struggled intermittently after that first SB win, but eventually Arians came along and he grew a lot as a QB.

I honestly don't see many contenders for elite status among the young QBs of today. But its a niche that many feels MUST be filled by someone once the current top QBs are gone, so I guess Wilson and Cam would be the two top candidates. Regardless, there won't be many who are even arguably elite that are currently in the league.

Honestly, I think the bigger deficiency is going to be at the next level of QBs, the "very good" tier. Who is coming along to replace Eli/Rivers/Romo/Ryan/(I know I know)Palmer/Flacco? I guess it might be argued guys like Bortles and Carr will fill that niche, but I'm just not sure about that. I see them more like I see Cutler, who has been a decent QB at times but never could crack that Top 10. Perhaps those guys aren't in the league yet. :idunno:
 

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