Elite Quarterbacks (1 Viewer)

[bobad]

The word "Elite" makes it a self defining statement.

Its not much different then saying "There are only a handful of Top 3 QBs".

Is that a Yogi-ism?

 

[BoNcHiE]

They get paid to win games not develop QBs.

Doesn't make it right or how it should be.

I mean, you are right in a sense. CFB has become so competitive that the players and their futures are getting crapped on all in an effort to squeeze out a few more wins so a coach can continue to make millions a year and ESPN can rake in billions in ad revenue.

The wellbeing and development of the student athletes is "supposed" to be the top priority, but we know it's not.

 

[bobad]

The wellbeing and development of the student athletes is "supposed" to be the top priority, but we know it's not.

If it was, the NFL would not draft underclassmen. That's a bad rule for the NFL and the student athletes.

 

[duckjr78]

Because the college game is absolute trash right now offensively.

College coaches, neglecting to actually coach QBs how to play the position properly, instead have chosen the easy way out by running the read option.

And this permeates all the way down to Pop Warner.

Coaches want to win, above developing players.

Pop Warner Football Coaching Handbook:
Take your best athlete
Stick him at QB
Run the read option

Repeat for High School, Prep School, and College.

This happens from the time the kids are 7 years old now. Any wonder that NONE of them make it to the NFL with any idea how to read any coverages? Sure, they come in and dazzle looking like a whirling dervish in the backfield and they often impress with the "chuck it deep into double coverage" play that is so popular now. The problem is, neither of those is a consistent way to win.

Just ask RGIII

Any of these kids could be elite, but none of them (a reasonable assumption by me) have been given the opportunity during their developmental years.

 

[duckjr78]

They get paid to win games not develop QBs.

Fair point.

But, the flip side (long term view) of the coin is: How many amazing players would come play for these coaches if they saw how they developed them and got them ready for the next level?

 

[superchuck500]

Doesn't make it right or how it should be.

I mean, you are right in a sense. CFB has become so competitive that the players and their futures are getting crapped on all in an effort to squeeze out a few more wins so a coach can continue to make millions a year and ESPN can rake in billions in ad revenue.

The wellbeing and development of the student athletes is "supposed" to be the top priority, but we know it's not.

Whether a program develops a player for the NFL is something that should shake out in the recruiting process. But I fail to see how developing players for the NFL would ever be more important than winning games. And that's not some cynical reality contrasted against the way it should be - that's just the very nature and function of it.

The college football program benefits a much wider range of student-athletes, employees, and related interests than the small handful of NFL prospects. And winning is what drives that program - not developing that small handful. Ideally they work in tandem, a program that develops quality NFL players should draw better recruits and that should translate to winning. But the program and its coaches are there to win (within the rules and all of that, of course).

 

[Boiler Jim]

I'll give my opinion on TheSaints7's questions.

If there has been a drafted QB in recent years who I thought would turn elite, it was Andrew Luck. I thought he was the likeliest too do so. Of course it hasn't turned that way yet and it probably won't but I genuinely thought he'd turn elite in the future. Now I don't.

Some people are too quick too throw around the word...elite.

Eli Manning has won Superbowls, same as his brother. But Peyton was elite, Eli isn't, he's just clutch.

People called Joe Flacco elite for winning a Super Bowl lol, but we all know he isn't. Just had a good playoffs.

2 Questions I'd like other peoples opinions on are...

1.) Do you think Russell Wilson is elite?

2.) Do you think JG of the Pats will become elite after he likely takes over the starting spot after Brady retires, barring injuries of course?

Here goes:

1) I DO think Russell Wilson has every indication that he will be elite. On the other hand I don't believe anyone should be labeled as "elite" until they have been performing at a very high level, consistently, for at least 5 years. He'll have 5 years in the league at the end of this year. With the rushing attack the Seahawks have had, he has thrown for fewer yards, than I would expect of an elite QB, but with very high passer ratings and high completion percentages. I think this year will tell a lot. Lynch is gone and the team will rely more on Wilson for its wins. If he delivers, I would call him Elite. If not, we need another year or two to know. Wilson also has the leadership and study traits I expect from an elite QB... Someday people will realize that quick thinking, tireless practice, tireless study of opponents and dedication to excellence are orders of magnitude more important than arm strength and foot speed in a QB. Wilson has all of these.

By way of contrast, I would say Luck, past his first year, has NOT been demonstrating elite QB play and even if he does this year, he still has 3 more high level years to go before you could really call him elite. He is someone everyone said would be elite when he came out of school, and so far, has been good, but not really elite.

Everyone calls Rodgers elite, but he sure has seemed in decline over the past few years... Unless something turns around, I don't believe a longer view will result in him being compared to Brees or Manning or Brady or Favre. One other thing I would say, elite QBs make their adequate receivers look very good, and don't rely that much on elite receivers making them look good. Rodgers relied on some extremely good receivers earlier in his career. As those receivers have aged and turned over, his numbers look a lot worse.

2) I think we can say Jimmy Garoppolo is the best QB to come out of Eastern Illinois. (Sorry Sean Payton.) He has had two good games starting this year... but it is WAY too early to throw around the "elite" label. Since about 1 in 100 QBs that become regular starters on an NFL team should every be labelled "elite" in my opinion, and since Jimmy has not reached the level of regular starter, let alone shown exceptional results for 5 years (my requirement), I'd say his chances are Very Slim. He does have three advantages over most QBs, 1) a mentor who is elite and 2) a coach who is perhaps the best in the game and 3) an organization that knows how to win better than any other organization since the turn of the millennia.

 

[JackT.]

my take on things. Football teams used to have football players with a sprinkle of track stars. Now they have track stars with a sprinkle of football players. The game is speed now. Yes, there are a few true players that are fast. But the majority don't really have football knowledge. With the college and high school teams going spread a lot, there are just not that many drop back passers being coached up right and having game experience. There is always that special group that comes around once or twice every decade. Ones that have that innate talent that comes to the front regardless. There are good drop back passers out there but they are overshadowed by the type of offense is being run. I also think we need at least 10 years to tell if a qb is elite or not. This crowning them elite after a season is just ludicrous. They get the big ego and slack off their training thinking they got this already. But that is just a product of this day and age with social media. Back in the day when colleges ran more pro style offenses, you notice that we had better qbs that turned out to be elite. They got plenty of practice and game experience. They had to be able to read defenses and actually call plays and not just look at signs or a number. Lack of coaching and a changing of the style of college offenses is why there are not that many elite young qbs.

 

[iocane powder]

Because Elite NFL caliber quarterbacks encompass like 0.01% of the population. They have skills and intangibles that can't be coached. Just look at all the great college quarterbacks that have come to the NFL over the years who were predicted to be the next ______ and ended up being just average to complete busts.

Elite is a term that gets thrown around like there are many elite QB's in the league every year, when in reality, there are probably only 4 actually "elite" QB's playing this year. Once Brady, Brees and Roethlisberger retire, I don't see many elite QB's already in the league (or even in the making already in the league) to take their place.

We might be elite QB starved for a few years before new players measure up to the Brady, Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger, etc. mold of QB again.

It's even worse than that. Current US population is around 320 Million. If elite QBs are .01%, there would be 32,000 of them. Since there are probably around 16 currently playing, that makes it 0.000005%. Very, very rare indeed.

We are very lucky to have Brees, who is in the top 0.0000001%!

 

[catch22]

Because the college game is absolute trash right now offensively.

College coaches, neglecting to actually coach QBs how to play the position properly, instead have chosen the easy way out by running the read option.

That's all the run in high school now. They just want the QB to be another running back.
It makes me mad. My son is in 7th grade. He can sling it! Throws a great ball and placement is unbelievable for a 7th grader. However, he's not very fast and will probably never get to see how good he could actually be because he won't be playing QB by the time he gets to high school. It will be some kid that runs around a lot and throws a bullet but rarely is on target.

 

[SunshinePumper]

That's all the run in high school now. They just want the QB to be another running back.
It makes me mad. My son is in 7th grade. He can sling it! Throws a great ball and placement is unbelievable for a 7th grader. However, he's not very fast and will probably never get to see how good he could actually be because he won't be playing QB by the time he gets to high school. It will be some kid that runs around a lot and throws a bullet but rarely is on target.

Wow, that really sucks.

What else really sucks is that the NFL’s solution to the problem will probably be to double down on the rule changes like the trash PI and defensive holding/illegal breathing on the receiver’s face (slight exaggeration) to help accommodate the new spread systems.

 

[Surviving Saint]

2 Questions I'd like other peoples opinions on are...

1.) Do you think Russell Wilson is elite?

2.) Do you think JG of the Pats will become elite after he likely takes over the starting spot after Brady retires, barring injuries of course?

1)No. He is more accurate than Vick, RG3, and Cam but I wouldnt call him elite. He is good for that system, but I dont think he would thrive in another system. Hard to say, but I just dont see him as elite.

2) Possibly and likely. The Pats have designed a QB friendly system. They can take a guy off the streets and make him look elite. Matt Cassel? Tom Brady has the luxury of playing for the Pats. Put him on any other team and he will look like a bum. Thats a fact. He throws nothing but 5yd passes and has all the time in the world to do it. I would have to dig up the stats to back that up, but Im lazy today.

I think Dak, Wentz and Luck will be the elite once Brees, Brady, and Roth are gone. Lucks problem is they dont have an Oline or a defense.

 

[oldJC.SAINTS]

Are elite QB product of the offensive system in place ?
Montana ? Brees ? Brady ?

Would they have flourished in any other system ? Montana playing for the Saints in place of Hebert ? Brees staying with the Chargers ? Brady playing for the Cleveland Browns ?


I think you need a solid QB to win in this league, but being elite I think is a product of a specific situation (system in place, players around, ...). Everything has to be aligned in my opinion.

 

[superchuck500]

We are very lucky to have Brees, who is in the top 0.0000001%!

Inconceivable!

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Elite ace pitchers
Elite closers
Elite shooting guards
Elite point guards
Elite strikers (soccer)
Or even elite 100m sprinters
Somebody draws a line between the top 2-5 athletes and then everyone else "discusses"
I'd say it's a construct but it's probably also a tremendous confluence of factors that opens the door to elite status