Employer mandated personal auto liability insurance limit? (1 Viewer)

BigFrosty

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I work in sales, but am in the office about 95% of the year and about 5% out meeting clients and attending industry functions.

My employer just changed their guidelines and is now saying that employees in production roles "must" carry $100k/$300k auto limits, or state minimum, whichever is greater.

Is this commonplace for the above described?

Is this enforceable?

Do companies typically offer compensation for said changes?
 

Galbreath34

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I can't help with your actual questions, but would recommend anyone who isn't on edge financially to carry that much anyway including on self. I had that much on 'passengers and other' but didn't have it on 'self' before this year. Increasing from 35k on self to 100k cost me about $5 a month or so with State Farm. I just never realized the self was that much lower on my old policy.

Now, the reason I recommend the change is I was on a single-lane each direction highway at night going the 65 mph speed limit and had two deer jump out while there was a car in the oncoming lane. Lucky that only lasting extensive damage was breaking off the side of my ankle, but had a fair number of head lacerations and the car was a ball of metal, so they air lifted me. One airlift ride runs over 34k. It's no fun coordinating health insurance to fight about exactly where auto insurance from an MVA runs out. So, can't recommend carrying 100k min per person enough unless you're really strapped.

Hopefully someone can answer about the company mandate, and ideally somehow it fits in with whatever your compensation package is for your work.
 

Saint_Ward

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efil4stnias

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I work in sales, but am in the office about 95% of the year and about 5% out meeting clients and attending industry functions.

My employer just changed their guidelines and is now saying that employees in production roles "must" carry $100k/$300k auto limits, or state minimum, whichever is greater.

Is this commonplace for the above described?

Is this enforceable?

Do companies typically offer compensation for said changes?
Yes.

Yes.

and depends.

Basically to explain this, when you are operating your vehicle for work, you are an extension of them. ( think insurance wise ). so if you are involved in an accident while on "official business " , your company can be held liable in the event that your limits are exhausted.

So its quite common to require higher limits to protect themselves.

They may even have "contingent auto liability" which is a policy to offer coverage for hired/non-owned vehicles and it is a requirement of those policies that the employee policy meet a certain level of insurance. ( again your insurance is primary and this policy is secondary in the event that your limits are exhausted {used up} in a claim )

Hope this helps.


any other questions let me know. ( btw- this is what i do for a living...commercial insurance )
 

superchuck500

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I work in sales, but am in the office about 95% of the year and about 5% out meeting clients and attending industry functions.

My employer just changed their guidelines and is now saying that employees in production roles "must" carry $100k/$300k auto limits, or state minimum, whichever is greater.

Is this commonplace for the above described?

Is this enforceable?

Do companies typically offer compensation for said changes?

The reason is that whenever you might actually be driving the vehicle in the scope of your employment (and it sounds like you are, at least some of the time), the company will be co-liable with you for any personal injury, death, or property damage that you may be responsible for. If insurance is in place, it will provide coverage up to the limits - so by requiring the employee to carry certain limits, the employer is effectively reducing its exposure at the cost of the employee (subject to possible limited reimbursement).

I don't know how commonplace but the question is whether you get mileage for when you're working. If you do, you can look to what the mileage reimbursement is and whether it includes an incremental amount for insurance. (And you can then work the numbers to see whether they really are providing some reimbursement in any meaningful way . . . for instance, did the per mile payment go up when they introduced this requirement?).

The question I have, though, (and perhaps this is for efil4), but don't most consumer auto policies have an exclusion of coverage for when you're working for somebody else? In other words, if you're in the scope of your employment and performing some employment mission, coverage might be excluded? I thought that was common, but I really don't know. If that's the case, it doesn't matter to your employer what your limits are.

Is it enforceable? Sure. They can fire you for non-compliance and I don't think there's a basis to challenge that (presuming that's the sole reason).
 

Galbreath34

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The question I have, though, (and perhaps this is for efil4), but don't most consumer auto policies have an exclusion of coverage for when you're working for somebody else? In other words, if you're in the scope of your employment and performing some employment mission, coverage might be excluded?
I'm pretty sure this varies wildly by state. I do know that if you're working a job like pizza delivery (or I assume if you do Uber or Lyft driving etc) in many states you're required to buy commercial driver's insurance, even though you may not need a CDL to drive for the job.

Ironically this recently came up in election coverage when Ken Bone used his normal reddit handle to do an AMA and the media looked into everything he'd posted. Part of it was him admitting he delivered pizza for a while without getting the required commercial insurance, which they sensationalized into "he admitted to committing insurance fraud" based on his self description in the admission. While technically true, absent saying what it was he did it made it sound like he was staging fake accidents.
 

superchuck500

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I'm pretty sure this varies wildly by state. I do know that if you're working a job like pizza delivery (or I assume if you do Uber or Lyft driving etc) in many states you're required to buy commercial driver's insurance, even though you may not need a CDL to drive for the job.

Ironically this recently came up in election coverage when Ken Bone used his normal reddit handle to do an AMA and the media looked into everything he'd posted. Part of it was him admitting he delivered pizza for a while without getting the required commercial insurance, which they sensationalized into "he admitted to committing insurance fraud" based on his self description in the admission. While technically true, absent saying what it was he did it made it sound like he was staging fake accidents.
Interesting.

For the record, I don't think that's insurance fraud and I don't think it's irony.

:)
 

efil4stnias

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The reason is that whenever you might actually be driving the vehicle in the scope of your employment (and it sounds like you are, at least some of the time), the company will be co-liable with you for any personal injury, death, or property damage that you may be responsible for. If insurance is in place, it will provide coverage up to the limits - so by requiring the employee to carry certain limits, the employer is effectively reducing its exposure at the cost of the employee (subject to possible limited reimbursement).

I don't know how commonplace but the question is whether you get mileage for when you're working. If you do, you can look to what the mileage reimbursement is and whether it includes an incremental amount for insurance. (And you can then work the numbers to see whether they really are providing some reimbursement in any meaningful way . . . for instance, did the per mile payment go up when they introduced this requirement?).

The question I have, though, (and perhaps this is for efil4), but don't most consumer auto policies have an exclusion of coverage for when you're working for somebody else? In other words, if you're in the scope of your employment and performing some employment mission, coverage might be excluded? I thought that was common, but I really don't know. If that's the case, it doesn't matter to your employer what your limits are.

Is it enforceable? Sure. They can fire you for non-compliance and I don't think there's a basis to challenge that (presuming that's the sole reason).

It literally depends on the carrier. Each one is different. Some have a "strict business use exclusion" - others offer business use endorsement or "incidental" use.

He would need to contact his agent to verify. but if he with one of the majors ( Liberty, State farm etc ) im almost sure it can be amended if not already covered.

ITs the smaller regional carrier types that toss in the exclusion. ( see below RPM vs Automotive Casualty [regional carrier]) from 1992.
 

efil4stnias

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I'm pretty sure this varies wildly by state. I do know that if you're working a job like pizza delivery (or I assume if you do Uber or Lyft driving etc) in many states you're required to buy commercial driver's insurance, even though you may not need a CDL to drive for the job.

Ironically this recently came up in election coverage when Ken Bone used his normal reddit handle to do an AMA and the media looked into everything he'd posted. Part of it was him admitting he delivered pizza for a while without getting the required commercial insurance, which they sensationalized into "he admitted to committing insurance fraud" based on his self description in the admission. While technically true, absent saying what it was he did it made it sound like he was staging fake accidents.
Uber ( cant speak for Lyft ) -

When you are driving for Uber you are actually under their policy ( while with fare or going to get fare ).

Its akin to a "bobtail" policy for truckers. When they are hauling for one concern, they run under thier DOT and insurance. But when not "on hook"...( aka driving tractor to home or wherever ) they must carry a liability policy. Thats called Bobtail.

So for a guy delivering pizza....the pizza place BETTER have a "contingent auto " policy or hired/non-owned policy to protect themselves from suit. AS for the delivery guy...i havent seen a claim denied in my 17 years nor have i heard of one being denied on the basis that "business use " was excluded. ( this extends to ANY place "delivering" product for a charge/fee )

But "business use" is key here. The driver isnt in the "business" - he is an employee OF the business. Thats the distinction. If he OWNED the business AND delivered...then yes he need commercial auto.

Now im talking just La.

And i havent worked in personal auto in over 18 years so things may have changed since then. So i can only speak to what my clients as owners of a business that delivers, would need to account for when assessing risk.


here from 1992
RPM PIZZA, INC. v. AUTOMOTIVE CAS. INS. CO. | 601 So.2d 1366 (1992) | Leagle.com.

For the reasons assigned, we affirm the judgments of the trial and appellate courts because we conclude that the policy exclusion clause does not preclude coverage under the circumstances of the present case. We pretermit as having been prematurely reached by the trial and appellate courts the question of whether the insurance policy exclusion clause is in derogation of laws enacted for the protection of the public interest.
 

Galbreath34

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Interesting.

For the record, I don't think that's insurance fraud and I don't think it's irony.

:)
Touche, coincidentally, or maybe goldy, but not irony. I think he said he faked the proof of insurance in photoshop and used it, making it such. Dunno, didn't read it that much. That whole stuff about his "seedy past" seemed to make him out to be a kind bumbling oaf more than anything.
 

Saint_Ward

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Touche, coincidentally, or maybe goldy, but not irony. I think he said he faked the proof of insurance in photoshop and used it, making it such. Dunno, didn't read it that much. That whole stuff about his "seedy past" seemed to make him out to be a kind bumbling oaf more than anything.
Don't you dare talk about my hero that way! :hihi:
 

efil4stnias

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I can't help with your actual questions, but would recommend anyone who isn't on edge financially to carry that much anyway including on self. I had that much on 'passengers and other' but didn't have it on 'self' before this year. Increasing from 35k on self to 100k cost me about $5 a month or so with State Farm. I just never realized the self was that much lower on my old policy.

Now, the reason I recommend the change is I was on a single-lane each direction highway at night going the 65 mph speed limit and had two deer jump out while there was a car in the oncoming lane. Lucky that only lasting extensive damage was breaking off the side of my ankle, but had a fair number of head lacerations and the car was a ball of metal, so they air lifted me. One airlift ride runs over 34k. It's no fun coordinating health insurance to fight about exactly where auto insurance from an MVA runs out. So, can't recommend carrying 100k min per person enough unless you're really strapped.

Hopefully someone can answer about the company mandate, and ideally somehow it fits in with whatever your compensation package is for your work.
for those interested- thats called PIP- Personal Injury Protection.
 

Galbreath34

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AS for the delivery guy...i havent seen a claim denied in my 17 years nor have i heard of one being denied on the basis that "business use " was excluded. ( this extends to ANY place "delivering" product for a charge/fee )
Thanks, and I actually believe you're probably right for what actually happens when the claim gets processed.

I Googled around because the thread got me curious about that part and it seems almost all of the "you have to have it" claims come from insurers who want to sell more insurance, and a lot of IANAL or other forum threads saying "it depends".

https://www.esurance.com/info/car/m...urance-policies-are-not-just-for-big-business

They may be telling the truth and things may have changed over time. I know 30ish years ago when I delivered pizza to get through college I just had ordinary insurance. Never had a wreck on the job to put it to the test. It's interesting. Good to know that Uber/Lyft actually covers their contractors' vehicles not just their own liability though. I'd have expected those companies to just cover their own butt.
 

Saint_Ward

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I freaking love his comments, including the one about being the bad guy but enjoying seeing her bleep bleep. He generally does seem like a normal nerd.
Yeah, I was mad that the media tried to making his comments more than what they were. Overall, if you looked at them, he was kinda defending the girls and being nice, just also joking about the nerds are...

Breaking News... Ken Bone thinks about having sex.. with women... a lot...
 

Galbreath34

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I just think it's hilarious that he was obviously on reddit that much and had no thought that he should create a new account to do a huge IAMA, shows he has no future in politics.
 

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