End game (9 Viewers)

David Robbins

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I have a question. For everyone who saw this movie, Steve Roger's. He went back in time to return the Stones. Here's the question. If he did this at the exact moment they were taken - according to the movie - then wouldn't that mean that Natasha isn't in the soul stone anymore. What about the reality stone. How did he get it to liquidise again to go into Jane. What about loki having used his stone to get away.

This doesn't even cover the whole time changing theme we could get into like described in back to the future.

There is also the question of how Steve not coming back would change all the things he had done in his life. If he lived out his life in the past, wouldn't that have changed all the things he did in the future.

This is mind boggling. You can't change the past and not change the future.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I have a question. For everyone who saw this movie, Steve Roger's. He went back in time to return the Stones. Here's the question. If he did this at the exact moment they were taken - according to the movie - then wouldn't that mean that Natasha isn't in the soul stone anymore. What about the reality stone. How did he get it to liquidise again to go into Jane. What about loki having used his stone to get away.

This doesn't even cover the whole time changing theme we could get into like described in back to the future.

There is also the question of how Steve not coming back would change all the things he had done in his life. If he lived out his life in the past, wouldn't that have changed all the things he did in the future.

This is mind boggling. You can't change the past and not change the future.
It’s a good and open question - one the Loki writers asked about but weren’t given an answer
I think they’ll leave the question open until there’s a reason to address it ( like if Chris Evans decides to do more Marvel or not)
 
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David Robbins

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The reason I ask is mainly about Natasha. In the movie, they said that the Stones have to be put back at the same time as they were taken. This should mean that Natasha isn't still in the soul stone and dead. Right
 

livefromDC

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They didn't change anything. All of those events still happen. They went to the past, took the stones to the future to do the Iron Man snap then promptly took the stones back to where they were in time so what will happen could happen. Steve Rogers goes on being Captain America while Steve Rogers from the future gets to live in the past knowing fully well that the world will be fine because Captain America of the present is taking care of business protecting the world.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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They didn't change anything. All of those events still happen. They went to the past, took the stones to the future to do the Iron Man snap then promptly took the stones back to where they were in time so what will happen could happen. Steve Rogers goes on being Captain America while Steve Rogers from the future gets to live in the past knowing fully well that the world will be fine because Captain America of the present is taking care of business protecting the world.
so either there are 2 timelines - which Loki indicated wouldn't be allowed
or 2 steve rogers running around in the same timeline
 

DaveXA

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so either there are 2 timelines - which Loki indicated wouldn't be allowed
or 2 steve rogers running around in the same timeline
Yep. The full scope/ramifications of that haven't been revealed yet. It's one of those things that I just accepted as it is what it is, but don't ask me exactly how they are supposed to pull it off.

Maybe that will get addressed the Dr. Strange 2 movie.
 

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so either there are 2 timelines - which Loki indicated wouldn't be allowed
or 2 steve rogers running around in the same timeline

I firmly believe that there's 2 Steve Rogers in the same time line. Allowed since 1.) future Steve Rogers is absolutely not producing anything resembling a ripple in current Steve Rogers' timeline by dancing indoors and 2.) Its part of the master timeline for him to return and give the shield to Falcon. If he doesn't remain in the past, he comes back still young enough to carry on (obligated even because, thats the way he's built) as Captain America. By doing so, THAT would likely have caused the world to break for some unknown, unthinkable reason that only He Who Remains knows about. At the very least, we know the events of Falcon and the Winter Soldier don't happen. Who knows, maybe it's Cap involved in the incident with the Flag Smashers instead of Walker.

But I'm just guessing at all of this.
 

Paul

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I firmly believe that there's 2 Steve Rogers in the same time line. Allowed since 1.) future Steve Rogers is absolutely not producing anything resembling a ripple in current Steve Rogers' timeline by dancing indoors and 2.) Its part of the master timeline for him to return and give the shield to Falcon. If he doesn't remain in the past, he comes back still young enough to carry on (obligated even because, thats the way he's built) as Captain America. By doing so, THAT would likely have caused the world to break for some unknown, unthinkable reason that only He Who Remains knows about. At the very least, we know the events of Falcon and the Winter Soldier don't happen. Who knows, maybe it's Cap involved in the incident with the Flag Smashers instead of Walker.

But I'm just guessing at all of this.
I’ll buy all of this.
 

tenordas

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Yes, this is where it gets murky. They tried to explain it away with Professor Hulk saying what they do is their future and not changing the past (but the explanation like seemed a major copout and utterly wrong).

However, even though the stones were returned to the point in time they were taken, what happened to them while in the future would still be part of their history when returned to the past. They still existed and moved through time individually while being used by the Avengers in the future, so when they were returned to the past, the time the stones spent in the future would still be a part of their "personal" past.

Therefore, Natasha was still in the soul stone when it was returned to the past. If there is a loophole to get her back, it lies there since they're sticking to the idea the stones still get destroyed by Thanos (IMHO, Thanos coming into the future and dying would prevent the Infinity War events from happening meaning the stones haven't been destroyed, but they're going with the Professor Hulk lame-out explanation, so the only way to get Nat back is rescuing her out of the stone in the past).

As for Loki escaping through use of the Space Stone, that was reset by the TVA when they captured him in the desert and set off the "reset bombs". When they reset the timeline, Loki no longer escapes with the stone, which means it ends up going back to Asgard with Thor at the end of Avengers after all.

The major problem with Steve Rogers remaining in the past isn't that it changes anything he did as Captain America (because Steve Rogers living in anonymity off somewhere in left field won't interfere with what he does as Captain America). The major problem is it changes everything that Agent Carter did after losing him in WWII. The fact that he went to a spot in time (apparently late 40s or early 50s by the cars in that scene) to return to her and live out his life with her is that it changed many events in the past that involved her. That alone would create an alternate timeline and no one at Marvel Studios has bothered to address that fact.
 
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MLU

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The reason I ask is mainly about Natasha. In the movie, they said that the Stones have to be put back at the same time as they were taken. This should mean that Natasha isn't still in the soul stone and dead. Right
What about the resurrection of Gamora? Infinity stones are not required to confirm to expectations or the typical rules. It was made very clear that to obtain the Soul Stone, a cost must be paid. That cost does not disappear just because you choose to return the stone.

A better question (IMO) is when Steve returns to Vorimir, how does he react when he sees Red Skull again?
 

DCSaints_Fan

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ll.

The major problem with Steve Rogers remaining in the past isn't that it changes anything he did as Captain America (because Steve Rogers living in anonymity off somewhere in left field won't interfere with what he does as Captain America). The major problem is it changes everything that Agent Carter did after losing him in WWII. The fact that he went to a spot in time (apparently late 40s or early 50s by the cars in that scene) to return to her and live out his life with her is that it changed many events in the past that involved her. That alone would create an alternate timeline and no one at Marvel Studios has bothered to address that fact.
Not really a problem as long as Agent Carter just does whatever she did In original timeline. Rogers being there doesn’t prevent that. And Rogers assumes an alternate identity and doesnt interfere in events in the timeline. The end hinted at that - he was there for Peggy and nothing else. It would have been hard for him to see all the events he could have done something about and been forced to sit on the sidelines - which is what made the ending so beautiful and sad at the same time.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Not really a problem as long as Agent Carter just does whatever she did In original timeline. Rogers being there doesn’t prevent that. And Rogers assumes an alternate identity and doesnt interfere in events in the timeline. The end hinted at that - he was there for Peggy and nothing else. It would have been hard for him to see all the events he could have done something about and been forced to sit on the sidelines - which is what made the ending so beautiful and sad at the same time.
I don’t think the butterfly effect would tolerate that
 
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David Robbins

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What about the resurrection of Gamora? Infinity stones are not required to confirm to expectations or the typical rules. It was made very clear that to obtain the Soul Stone, a cost must be paid. That cost does not disappear just because you choose to return the stone.

A better question (IMO) is when Steve returns to Vorimir, how does he react when he sees Red Skull again?
But, if you return the stone at the same time that you took it, then that should negate Natasha's death, right
 

DaveXA

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What about the resurrection of Gamora? Infinity stones are not required to confirm to expectations or the typical rules. It was made very clear that to obtain the Soul Stone, a cost must be paid. That cost does not disappear just because you choose to return the stone.

A better question (IMO) is when Steve returns to Vorimir, how does he react when he sees Red Skull again?
Definitely, but, if Steve is returning the stone, I don't think Red Skull has a problem accepting the return of the stone, and essentially the stone is intact. Of course,
Nat's sacrifice still happens in the main timeline.

To extrapolate this fully ends up being a convoluted mess though.
 

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