Eviction / COVID Question / Help (1 Viewer)

Waymer

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So long story short.

A family member and her family have lived rent free in a home that my family owns. There is no formal agreement since no rent is exchanged.

It has been rent free for +/- 18 months. At that time, we gave them notice they would have to move out come March 31, 2021 (originally we had said December 31, 2020 but didn't want to make them move during Christmas).

Long story short, they informed us today that they are refusing to move out of the house.

So what are my family's options? Initially I thought we couldn't kick them out because of Covid/Eviction rules, but it appears maybe March 31 we could regardless? And even then there is a process (this is in Florida): https://www.trls.org/what-florida-r... Moratorium stops,tenant until MARCH 31, 2021.

Likewise someone told me that since we have no lease and we own the house, we could just flat out change the locks and put their stuff at the curb.

Now all this being said, we don't want to be a bad guy. We've even offered to put them up in a hotel for a bit until they find a place. But the crux of the issue is that we do have a person scheduled to move in April 2nd.

Any thoughts?
 
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Waymer

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How are you just going to tell somebody that you're NOT moving out of something you don't own? No sob stories. No laundry list of excuses why it can't happen right now. Not even "please just give me a little more time"

Just flat out "nah bruh, I'm good where I'm at".

When did people get so bleep-ing stupid and entitled?

I'd like to say it was even just that. It involved many more 4 letter words said to my wife, from her own sister. The said thing is I don't see how they don't end up estranged. And while my wife is OK with that as a sister, I'm sure it will be hard for her and her nieces/nephews. But she insisted we had to do it, and she is right.
 

tomwaits

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30-40% is not a majority.

The majority of small building landlords were small business, but overall it was 30-40% of all rental properties were small businesses.
To me this meant that the large apartment complexes are likely not small business, but rental houses, duplexes and small apartment buildings are more likely to be.
 

Saint_Ward

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Well, our lawyer gave the notice to the process server to deliver. So they'll be notified today or in the next day or so and then have time to leave and/or contest it in court. We'll see about the end of next month where things stand.

Some valuable lessons learned. One thing I thought about in this scenario is it is very easy to sit back and say everything in the world is negative and people suck and why does no one do good deeds or why aren't more done, etc, etc. But then you find yourself in the middle of a situation where you legitimately made a great effort to help a family (and family member) with an agreed upon understanding, and then you get down the road and they give you a big middle finger and legitimately say we don't care about our agreement, don't care about your future plans for the house you graciously let us live in, and all that jazz. Heck, I learned during this process if I had let them stay 7 years (and they weren't even close to that), that yes, squatter's rights could have potentially prevented my family from having our own home. So you know what? I understand why some people say screw it.

As a dad of 16 month old twin boys, I don't want them to lose that sense of innocence in the world and willingness to help out those in need. But obviously even I've learned that sometimes the only help you can give is tough love, or else you jeopardize your own well-being and that of your family. It's a shame, but I get it.

Do you know the condition of the house? pictures? Evidence that everything is mostly fine or normal 'wear and tear"

I'd fully expect them to trash the place and say you can't prove it was them. I hope you have stuff documented.
 

Saint_Ward

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I'd like to say it was even just that. It involved many more 4 letter words said to my wife, from her own sister. The said thing is I don't see how they don't end up estranged. And while my wife is OK with that as a sister, I'm sure it will be hard for her and her nieces/nephews. But she insisted we had to do it, and she is right.
That is their parent's fault.

And don't underestimate a Woman's ability to write off her family. ;)
 
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Im even more stunned. Seems that being a small business landlord is a very risky business. Especially if your doing a mortgage on it.

I remember my grandparents were owners of several houses back in 80s to early 90s. Those were different times then

Don't forget, the young generation also believes that land lords are evil. Shelter is a basic human right and land lords should not profit on it. I spend way too much time on Reddit.
 
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Waymer

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Do you know the condition of the house? pictures? Evidence that everything is mostly fine or normal 'wear and tear"

I'd fully expect them to trash the place and say you can't prove it was them. I hope you have stuff documented.

Absolutely my fear. We have some documentation, but I just emailed my lawyer stating I would like to hire someone to take photos of the property, and get the police to do a civil standby for the 5-10 minutes the photographer needs to be there.
 
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Waymer

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They've clearly been served notice by now. My SIL blocked my wife on Facebook, which as we know is the 2021 equivalent of severing all ties.
 
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Waymer

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DaveXA

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Honestly? Probably that we were bluffing and they would just let them stay there for who knows how long.

Yeah, at what point do you wait before you put your foot down and say it's time to show it's no bluff? Certainly you waited long enough. Good luck man.
 
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Waymer

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They were served yesterday. Saw the process server affidavit today. After consulting with my attorney we also gave them notice that someone would be by tomorrow to photograph the home on behalf of the owner. They flat out said they won't allow access. Of course I've got all the paperwork from my attorney provided to the photographer/inspector, have spoke to the police to do a civil standby so our agent isn't threatened or harmed, have documentation (read receipts) that they received due notice, etc. But of course they think you can just keep an owner off their property no matter what.:rolleyes:

They still say that they won't allow anyone in the house, although Florida Statutes are pretty clear and case law here clearly states 12-hour notice is reasonable. Of course there is also the argument that no notice is needed since we fear they will damage the home and the documentation is for protection/preservation of the premises.

It's all laughable if it wasn't costing money and relationships...and sadly in this case the money is actually more valuable.

83.53 Landlord’s access to dwelling unit.—
(1) The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter the dwelling unit from time to time in order to inspect the premises; make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations, or improvements; supply agreed services; or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagees, tenants, workers, or contractors.
(2) The landlord may enter the dwelling unit at any time for the protection or preservation of the premises. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit upon reasonable notice to the tenant and at a reasonable time for the purpose of repair of the premises. “Reasonable notice” for the purpose of repair is notice given at least 12 hours prior to the entry, and reasonable time for the purpose of repair shall be between the hours of 7:30 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit when necessary for the further purposes set forth in subsection (1) under any of the following circumstances:
 

DaveXA

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They were served yesterday. Saw the process server affidavit today. After consulting with my attorney we also gave them notice that someone would be by tomorrow to photograph the home on behalf of the owner. They flat out said they won't allow access. Of course I've got all the paperwork from my attorney provided to the photographer/inspector, have spoke to the police to do a civil standby so our agent isn't threatened or harmed, have documentation (read receipts) that they received due notice, etc. But of course they think you can just keep an owner off their property no matter what.:rolleyes:

They still say that they won't allow anyone in the house, although Florida Statutes are pretty clear and case law here clearly states 12-hour notice is reasonable. Of course there is also the argument that no notice is needed since we fear they will damage the home and the documentation is for protection/preservation of the premises.

It's all laughable if it wasn't costing money and relationships...and sadly in this case the money is actually more valuable.

83.53 Landlord’s access to dwelling unit.—
(1) The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter the dwelling unit from time to time in order to inspect the premises; make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations, or improvements; supply agreed services; or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagees, tenants, workers, or contractors.
(2) The landlord may enter the dwelling unit at any time for the protection or preservation of the premises. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit upon reasonable notice to the tenant and at a reasonable time for the purpose of repair of the premises. “Reasonable notice” for the purpose of repair is notice given at least 12 hours prior to the entry, and reasonable time for the purpose of repair shall be between the hours of 7:30 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit when necessary for the further purposes set forth in subsection (1) under any of the following circumstances:

I wonder if the house being in bad condition and them thinking they'll be on the hook to make the repairs is why they might have been stalling from the get go?
 
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Waymer

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I wonder if the house being in bad condition and them thinking they'll be on the hook to make the repairs is why they might have been stalling from the get go?

I actually don't think so. We showed it just a matter of two months ago to the tenant who was to move in this month. I think they just don't want to leave and are now pissed.
 

DaveXA

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I actually don't think so. We showed it just a matter of two months ago to the tenant who was to move in this month. I think they just don't want to leave and are now pissed.

Ah, that's crazy then. I've had a lot of different landlords over the years and really only ever had problems with one of them.

But, dealing with family often comes with it's own issues. I've seen brothers and father son businesses in my family get wrecked because one or the other wasn't honest about how the business money was spent.

It sucks and has long lasting effects for sure.
 

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