Ex-Astros P Mike Fiers says Astros used center-field camera to steal signs (Update: MLB issues punishment) MERGED (5 Viewers)

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This is a big deal. They likened it to poker. If you're a good poker player, you can "read" the other player and "steal" his signs just through acumen or figuring him out, but this is like having a camera behind him looking at his cards. Terrible.

The dude who blew the whistle said the reason he did this is that these pitchers' careers are determined by how well players hit off of them. People get knocked down to the minors for being teed off on and it wasn't right to have that happen through cheating. And I remember Yu Darvish getting drilled by them a couple years ago in that series and thinking wow he must be telegraphing his pitches somehow.

Just damn cheaters is all.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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This is a big deal. They likened it to poker. If you're a good poker player, you can "read" the other player and "steal" his signs just through acumen or figuring him out, but this is like having a camera behind him looking at his cards. Terrible.

The dude who blew the whistle said the reason he did this is that these pitchers' careers are determined by how well players hit off of them. People get knocked down to the minors for being teed off on and it wasn't right to have that happen through cheating. And I remember Yu Darvish getting drilled by them a couple years ago in that series and thinking wow he must be telegraphing his pitches somehow.

Just damn cheaters is all.
Gutsy move on his part

But it’s also strange- baseball has to be on the the most fluid pro careers - dudes can be on like 8-10 different teams when they’re done- how would the astros not think this would get out?
 

The Moose

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I think of this like race cars if you are not cheating you are not trying.

Yes is it wrong yep. Just like all the other home field tricks. How the field plays is done for the home team.

What would you expect out of a league that refused to test for performance enhancing drugs for ever. To the point the stars looked like cavemen.
 

mc4saints

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Not the same at all see poker reference above. They should come down hard on the Astros. This is worse than Pete Rose betting on games. This truly changes the outcome of the game.

I think of this like race cars if you are not cheating you are not trying.

Yes is it wrong yep. Just like all the other home field tricks. How the field plays is done for the home team.

What would you expect out of a league that refused to test for performance enhancing drugs for ever. To the point the stars looked like cavemen.
 

The Moose

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Not the same at all see poker reference above. They should come down hard on the Astros. This is worse than Pete Rose betting on games. This truly changes the outcome of the game.
Ok

I guess the juice years did not change any games? What did they take from anybody for that?

That is right the players won't get in the Hof but that is about it. If they got a slap on the wrist or not.

Boxing is the only sport I would put higher on the crooked sports list than baseball.

You might hear of a slap on the wrist if that. It will get downplayed. At least they were cheating for themselves.

And no it was not worst than betting on games you are managing that is the worst. I know he said he never bet against his team but I don't believe that. When you set the rotation and line up fixing games is stupid easy.
 

superchuck500

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I think of this like race cars if you are not cheating you are not trying.

Yes is it wrong yep. Just like all the other home field tricks. How the field plays is done for the home team.

What would you expect out of a league that refused to test for performance enhancing drugs for ever. To the point the stars looked like cavemen.
Use of technology and surveillance equipment to gain a meaningful competitive advantage in the stick and ball sports is a big deal - I think. I presume it’s against the rules (I don’t know though).

Even in racing where there are a multitude of teams in the same event and the cars have all sorts of technology involved already, the big leagues disqualify teams that are caught cheating (as in the win/finish doesn’t count). That doesn’t usually happen with the team sports - the penalties are less severe unless you’re the Saints doing bullcrap. But this seems they have to punish it in some way if it’s true.

But hell I don’t even know if it’s against the rules.
 

The Moose

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Use of technology and surveillance equipment to gain a meaningful competitive advantage in the stick and ball sports is a big deal - I think. I presume it’s against the rules (I don’t know though).

Even in racing where there are a multitude of teams in the same event and the cars have all sorts of technology involved already, the big leagues disqualify teams that are caught cheating (as in the win/finish doesn’t count). That doesn’t usually happen with the team sports - the penalties are less severe unless you’re the Saints doing bullcrap. But this seems they have to punish it in some way if it’s true.

But hell I don’t even know if it’s against the rules.

I would assume using tech is illegal.

I know a guy on second base signaling you is not.

I would say obviously they did not do it this year. They could not hit anything at home this year.

Nobody is giving back rings. Just like the Pats did not give back Superbowl rings.

That is how it is like the Nascar good old days. You have to expect cheating as a league you have to look for it. You have to be smart enough to look if someone is machining the reverse gears out of titanium. They did that one and a beautiful cheat they got away with for years and years.
 

mc4saints

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Ok

I guess the juice years did not change any games? What did they take from anybody for that?

That is right the players won't get in the Hof but that is about it. If they got a slap on the wrist or not.

Boxing is the only sport I would put higher on the crooked sports list than baseball.

You might hear of a slap on the wrist if that. It will get downplayed. At least they were cheating for themselves.

And no it was not worst than betting on games you are managing that is the worst. I know he said he never bet against his team but I don't believe that. When you set the rotation and line up fixing games is stupid easy.
Look Pete Rose had issues and doesn't seem like a good person but nobody wanted to win more than him at anything. There were not any signs found that he was benching players or manipulating line ups because he was betting against the Reds.

Like I said, the poker reference is perfect. If a pitcher is tipping his pitches or a runner on 2nd base is telling batter.... Fine. That has been happening for years.... But a camera in the outfield with a monitor in the dugout? That is awful cheating. Did you play baseball in high school or higher? Knowing if a fastball or off speed pitch is coming is a huge advantage for a hitter.

As far as comparing this to the steroid Era, not equal. MLB turned a blind eye for every team. Not just letting 1 team do steroids. I don't think MLB had any idea the Astros were doing this.

If the Astros really did this, how arrogant and stupid? So much turnover on roster. It was bound to get out.
 

The Moose

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Look Pete Rose had issues and doesn't seem like a good person but nobody wanted to win more than him at anything. There were not any signs found that he was benching players or manipulating line ups because he was betting against the Reds.

Like I said, the poker reference is perfect. If a pitcher is tipping his pitches or a runner on 2nd base is telling batter.... Fine. That has been happening for years.... But a camera in the outfield with a monitor in the dugout? That is awful cheating. Did you play baseball in high school or higher? Knowing if a fastball or off speed pitch is coming is a huge advantage for a hitter.

As far as comparing this to the steroid Era, not equal. MLB turned a blind eye for every team. Not just letting 1 team do steroids. I don't think MLB had any idea the Astros were doing this.

If the Astros really did this, how arrogant and stupid? So much turnover on roster. It was bound to get out.
Ok

It is not.

Poker you just have to not giggle your arse off for that cheat to work. You know keep your poker face.

On the other hand baseball you have to still hit pitches that are hard to hit anyway. Yep did play ball all the way thru high school was pretty good hitting in fact was batting clean up Junior and senior year.

With that said it still takes a ton of skill to hit a good curve or slider even if you know an off speed pitch is coming. So yeah the odds of making contact went up but they still had to do it.

When you watch what was posted do they clobber the crap out of it every time they know it is an off speed pitch or fastball? Nope not even close.

I also loved Pete Rose as a kid. I bought that line then as a child.

I not a kid anymore. I have known real gamblers and their problems and what they do. A family member just about ruined our family because of them.

To think a degenerate gambler did just place bets on his own team and made lineup choices that were only good for the team long term and not just good for the bet now is foolish don't you think?

Oh and one more thing have you ever know an honest gambler with a problem? I never have.

Pete should never be in the Hof just like Bonds should never be.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Ok

It is not.

Poker you just have to not giggle your arse off for that cheat to work. You know keep your poker face.

On the other hand baseball you have to still hit pitches that are hard to hit anyway. Yep did play ball all the way thru high school was pretty good hitting in fact was batting clean up Junior and senior year.

With that said it still takes a ton of skill to hit a good curve or slider even if you know an off speed pitch is coming. So yeah the odds of making contact went up but they still had to do it.

When you watch what was posted do they clobber the crap out of it every time they know it is an off speed pitch or fastball? Nope not even close.

I also loved Pete Rose as a kid. I bought that line then as a child.

I not a kid anymore. I have known real gamblers and their problems and what they do. A family member just about ruined our family because of them.

To think a degenerate gambler did just place bets on his own team and made lineup choices that were only good for the team long term and not just good for the bet now is foolish don't you think?

Oh and one more thing have you ever know an honest gambler with a problem? I never have.

Pete should never be in the Hof just like Bonds should never be.
It feels like you’re projecting a bit
Are you then saying Michael Jordan bet against the bulls when he played?
Certainly he gambled then
 

The Moose

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It feels like you’re projecting a bit
Are you then saying Michael Jordan bet against the bulls when he played?
Certainly he gambled then
Nope don't think Jordan ever got caught gambling on the NBA.

I do know rose bet on his sport for a long time and had more control of accual outcome as the manager player

Or are you just going to bat for the degenerate gamblers of the world? Ha that was good.

Have you ever known a degenerate gambler?
 

Marty_Graw

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Just a casual baseball fan, so I don't know much about Fiers. But, if he was so concerned about the integrity of the game, why didn't he report it while he was with the Astros? Why now?
 

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