Ex-Astros P Mike Fiers says Astros used center-field camera to steal signs (Update: MLB issues punishment) MERGED (1 Viewer)

DJ1BigTymer

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
4,820
Reaction score
7,267
Age
47
Online
The report already said there was NO finding of electronic devices on the players. It’s BS he even had to make a statement through his agent that he didn’t do it. Honestly anyone going after Altuve has rocks for brains
The report did not say there were no findings of electronic devices on the players. In fact, they did not even address the subject of batters wearing devices to receive communications.


They did, however, mention the Astros did not use any devices during the 2018 Postseason.
 

BuddyDeesGhost

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
4,266
Age
42
Location
Girod St. End Zone
Offline
Here's the new hero of the Yankees and Dodgers:


He was so bad in 2017 he couldn't even hit the batter - much less the catcher's glove. You gonna believe this guy?!
 

2fya

Bench Warmer
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
2,780
Age
33
Location
Duson, LA
Online
The guys who are defending the astros in this thread are really baffling me. How can you defend this?

i bet you guys were quick to defend the patriots in spygate right? I bet not.
 

jasonsw

Swimmer is my friend
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
1,459
Reaction score
3,776
Age
39
Location
Bastrop
Online
The guys who are defending the astros in this thread are really baffling me. How can you defend this?

i bet you guys were quick to defend the patriots in spygate right? I bet not.
As my favorite radio host Ben Maller likes to say about all this. BANG BANG !!!!. He was one of the first media people to suspect the Astros of cheating.

This scandal just further erodes baseball. One thing to juice completely different to win World Series win an unfair advantage.
 

BuddyDeesGhost

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
4,266
Age
42
Location
Girod St. End Zone
Offline
Well there is the fact that AJ Hinch admitted it was going on, but OK.
Sure - just like Gregg Williams. Better say what the league tells you or else say goodbye to your livelihood.

Also. You can read all pages of the report, but here's what if fails to mention:

Assuming you're sure there is a curveball coming there is still the challenge of hitting it - keeping it fair, etc. There is an edge, yes; but you have to have skill and talent to be able to do something with that edge. There is a huge probability that "signal stealing" will not help a player who is mediocre at the plate.

And another thing, I'm sick of people comparing this to Pete Rose. When you're the manager of a team (like Rose) and you bet against your own team, there is almost a 100% chance that you will lose - since you then have power to change your entire lineup.

And finally, how many roid head players won championships during the "juiced ball era" and the 80's when players like Canseco were finding ways to slip the shoddy testing protocols?

Astros beat the Dodgers and the Yankees. That's two of the biggest moneymakers on the planet.

i bet you guys were quick to defend the patriots in spygate right? I bet not.
No Spygate was just bizarre and I still don't understand it. This is more like bounty gate, where you have almost every team tries to steal signs - just like almost every team had some informal incentive system. Astros are like us. Small market team that doesn't bring in the big bucks. Of course, the more powerful owners are too gutless to attack anybody but the underdog. So the Astros and the Saints both get railroaded if they win.
 

2fya

Bench Warmer
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
2,780
Age
33
Location
Duson, LA
Online
Sure - just like Gregg Williams. Better say what the league tells you or else say goodbye to your livelihood.

Also. You can read all pages of the report, but here's what if fails to mention:

Assuming you're sure there is a curveball coming there is still the challenge of hitting it - keeping it fair, etc. There is an edge, yes; but you have to have skill and talent to be able to do something with that edge. There is a huge probability that "signal stealing" will not help a player who is mediocre at the plate.

And another thing, I'm sick of people comparing this to Pete Rose. When you're the manager of a team (like Rose) and you bet against your own team, there is almost a 100% chance that you will lose - since you then have power to change your entire lineup.

And finally, how many roid head players won championships during the "juiced ball era" and the 80's when players like Canseco were finding ways to slip the shoddy testing protocols?

Astros beat the Dodgers and the Yankees. That's two of the biggest moneymakers on the planet.



No Spygate was just bizarre and I still don't understand it. This is more like bounty gate, where you have almost every team tries to steal signs - just like almost every team had some informal incentive system. Astros are like us. Small market team that doesn't bring in the big bucks. Of course, the more powerful owners are too gutless to attack anybody but the underdog. So the Astros and the Saints both get railroaded if they win.
Dude 🤦🏼‍♂️. The bias is unreal.

if this happened to the rangers, you would be all over it.

and how the hell are the astros underdogs??? Go somewhere with that
 

2fya

Bench Warmer
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
2,780
Age
33
Location
Duson, LA
Online
Assuming you're sure there is a curveball coming there is still the challenge of hitting it - keeping it fair, etc. There is an edge, yes; but you have to have skill and talent to be able to do something with that edge. There is a huge probability that "signal stealing" will not help a player who is mediocre at the plate.
This has to be my favorite part....

You have to be kidding, for real. You have to be kidding. Absolutely awful take
 

BuddyDeesGhost

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
4,266
Age
42
Location
Girod St. End Zone
Offline
how the hell are the astros underdogs???
1. Small Media Market - who really wanted to play there before they were champs?
2. They had 3 100 loss seasons between 2010 and 2014
3. Fanbase is limited
4. No World series appearances in the first 50+ years of the franchise
5. Income is limited - they simply don;t have the financial benefits of the Yanks or Dodgers, or even the Red Sox

shall I continue....nah...I've said too much already....

Face it man the stros are being railroaded just like us in 2011 - unless you're the type of guy who believes that bounties were exclusive to the Saints - you should know where I'm coming from.

And yes. Personally I'd feel bad for the Rangers too if this happened to them.
 

BuddyDeesGhost

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
4,266
Age
42
Location
Girod St. End Zone
Offline
This has to be my favorite part....

You have to be kidding, for real. You have to be kidding. Absolutely awful take
Why? You should go to a batter's cage sometime. Set the sucker up to throw 90mph fastballs - see if you can make solid contact a 90 Mph fastball just because you know it's coming. Then come back here and tell me if "stealing signs" really helps. Or better yet, simply ask a former player.
 

2fya

Bench Warmer
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
2,780
Age
33
Location
Duson, LA
Online
1. Small Media Market - who really wanted to play there before they were champs?
2. They had 3 100 loss seasons between 2010 and 2014
3. Fanbase is limited
4. No World series appearances in the first 50+ years of the franchise
5. Income is limited - they simply don;t have the financial benefits of the Yanks or Dodgers, or even the Red Sox

shall I continue....nah...I've said too much already....

Face it man the stros are being railroaded just like us in 2011 - unless you're the type of guy who believes that bounties were exclusive to the Saints - you should know where I'm coming from.

And yes. Personally I'd feel bad for the Rangers too if this happened to them.
Small media market? They are the 4th largest city in america. Above average media market.

What does having a bad team between 2010 and 2014 have to do with anything?

How is the fanbase limited? The fanbase expands outside of Texas. Most people i know in little old Lafayette are astros fans, as is most of Louisiana.

World series appearances? Did that stop the red sox and cubs from being in the spotlight every year?
 

2fya

Bench Warmer
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
2,780
Age
33
Location
Duson, LA
Online
Why? You should go to a batter's cage sometime. Set the sucker up to throw 90mph fastballs - see if you can make solid contact a 90 Mph fastball just because you know it's coming. Then come back here and tell me if "stealing signs" really helps. Or better yet, simply ask a former player.
Am i a professional athlete? what a stupid comment.

A professional athlete (even a college athlete) will have a high success rate if they know what pitch is coming.
 

2fya

Bench Warmer
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
2,780
Age
33
Location
Duson, LA
Online
So who are you to go around yapping that "sign stealing" can take any team straight to the top?
When did i say it can take any team to the top? When you have elite talent playing another elite team, of course knowing which pitches are coming will give you a substantial advantage.

Even if the worst team in the league was caught doing this, the owner, GM, manager, and players should be heavily reprimanded. From my point of view, its not just bc the astros won a title.

Your view on this issue is terrible
 

BuddyDeesGhost

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
4,266
Age
42
Location
Girod St. End Zone
Offline
When did i say it can take any team to the top? When you have elite talent playing another elite team, of course knowing which pitches are coming will give you a substantial advantage.

Even if the worst team in the league was caught doing this, the owner, GM, manager, and players should be heavily reprimanded. From my point of view, its not just bc the astros won a title.

Your view on this issue is terrible
Sorry I snapped at you. It's obvious you are willing to listen to reason on the subject and you've made your mind up. To me it reeks of that bountygate stench.

All I'm saying is that the words "substantial advantage" should be interpreted very carefully here. I heard a lot of very knowledgeable people speak on the subject. I'm not sure how my take on the situation is any worse, or different than theirs.

It's not a even close to a 50% guarantee though that "sign stealing" (even with the use of high tech) will give an advantage at all. Sometimes a pitcher is going to throw a player an offspeed pitch inside for example, because 77% of the time - that player will ground out on an offspeed pitch. If the count then is 3-2, does it really matter if the batter knows whats coming next? Chances are the pitcher (if he and the catcher are any good) will aim for the weak spot anyway.

Even still there is no guarantee that the pitcher will not lose his grip on the ball and said player might wind up swinging at a ball in the dirt. Or even worse, the pitcher may lose his grip on a pitch the player doesn't want to swing at and the player will simply sit there and watch a batting practice fastball float dead across the center of the plate.

That said, the practice of "sign stealing" is nothing like "juicing" or "throwing games" where there is almost a 100% guarantee of an advantage. Which some people around here have the nerve to compare it to. In fact, it's very much like "bounties". Just because I will give you $40k to break a player in half, doesn't really give you a substantial advantage either. Too many intangibles in the equation.
 
Last edited:

mc4saints

Subscribing Member
VIP Subscribing Member
VIP Contributor
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
6,557
Reaction score
9,079
Offline
Sure - just like Gregg Williams. Better say what the league tells you or else say goodbye to your livelihood.

Also. You can read all pages of the report, but here's what if fails to mention:

Assuming you're sure there is a curveball coming there is still the challenge of hitting it - keeping it fair, etc. There is an edge, yes; but you have to have skill and talent to be able to do something with that edge. There is a huge probability that "signal stealing" will not help a player who is mediocre at the plate.

And another thing, I'm sick of people comparing this to Pete Rose. When you're the manager of a team (like Rose) and you bet against your own team, there is almost a 100% chance that you will lose - since you then have power to change your entire lineup.

And finally, how many roid head players won championships during the "juiced ball era" and the 80's when players like Canseco were finding ways to slip the shoddy testing protocols?

Astros beat the Dodgers and the Yankees. That's two of the biggest moneymakers on the planet.



No Spygate was just bizarre and I still don't understand it. This is more like bounty gate, where you have almost every team tries to steal signs - just like almost every team had some informal incentive system. Astros are like us. Small market team that doesn't bring in the big bucks. Of course, the more powerful owners are too gutless to attack anybody but the underdog. So the Astros and the Saints both get railroaded if they win.
No proof Rose ever bet against the Reds. Plenty of proof he bet on the Reds. Rose was the most competitive, ahole, SOB on the planet. I actually believe that man couldn't bet on himself to lose. He didn't think he could lose.

If everyone is doing this level of technology sign stealing, does that make it ok? Sure everyone was doing roids, wasn't OK, but players basically didn't get punished like it seems Astros players will not be punished.

I played low level college baseball. I can tell you it is a huge advantage knowing if an off-speed or fastball is coming. Yes baseball is hard when doing something correct 25% of the time gets you millions, but to say it is just an "edge" to know if an off speed or fastball is coming is a huge understatement.


Ultimately, in the big picture, at least for the next 5 years. The Astros are really not getting punished at all IMO. They have an amazingly talented team. No players are going to get punished. IMO, Managers and GM's have the least short term effect on the outcome of games versus any other sport. Plus the Astros will most likely just hire another great manager and GM. Those 4 draft picks won't hurt for at least 5 years because we all know most young baseball talent doesn't even make the bigs for 4-5 years.

Count your lucky stars. If camera sign stealing is no big deal to you, don't sweat it. It got you a WS. If it was fair and square in your mind, why is this even bothering you?
 

saintmdterps

I hear music, daylight disc.
VIP Subscribing Member
VIP Contributor
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
15,267
Reaction score
15,121
Age
58
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
Offline
Sure - just like Gregg Williams. Better say what the league tells you or else say goodbye to your livelihood.

Also. You can read all pages of the report, but here's what if fails to mention:

Assuming you're sure there is a curveball coming there is still the challenge of hitting it - keeping it fair, etc. There is an edge, yes; but you have to have skill and talent to be able to do something with that edge. There is a huge probability that "signal stealing" will not help a player who is mediocre at the plate.

And another thing, I'm sick of people comparing this to Pete Rose. When you're the manager of a team (like Rose) and you bet against your own team, there is almost a 100% chance that you will lose - since you then have power to change your entire lineup.

And finally, how many roid head players won championships during the "juiced ball era" and the 80's when players like Canseco were finding ways to slip the shoddy testing protocols?

Astros beat the Dodgers and the Yankees. That's two of the biggest moneymakers on the planet.



No Spygate was just bizarre and I still don't understand it. This is more like bounty gate, where you have almost every team tries to steal signs - just like almost every team had some informal incentive system. Astros are like us. Small market team that doesn't bring in the big bucks. Of course, the more powerful owners are too gutless to attack anybody but the underdog. So the Astros and the Saints both get railroaded if they win.
Speaking of Canseco, couldn't happen to a nicer guy :hihi:
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)



Headlines

Top Bottom