Ex-Astros P Mike Fiers says Astros used center-field camera to steal signs (Update: MLB issues punishment) MERGED (1 Viewer)

[Grumpy Old Manatee]

Just a casual baseball fan, so I don't know much about Fiers. But, if he was so concerned about the integrity of the game, why didn't he report it while he was with the Astros? Why now?

 

[superchuck500]

Nope don't think Jordan ever got caught gambling on the NBA.

I do know rose bet on his sport for a long time and had more control of accual outcome as the manager player

Or are you just going to bat for the degenerate gamblers of the world? Ha that was good.

Have you ever known a degenerate gambler?

You're turned up to 11 on this for some reason.

I do agree that they're not going to take away the 2017 title - and I suppose we don't really know that much about this. It seems that video evidence from home games that season verifies the report, but we don't fully know the league's view of the context.

Has the use of technology to intercept and relay signs been something that the league has addressed with the franchises in the past? Are there grey areas in the rules applicable here? Does anyone involved have a history of this kind of thing? Is this something that the league believes requires an example to be made so that it stems similar conduct?

I think those questions and ones like it bear on the result. Monitoring and punishing activity outside of the rules that gives a competitive advantage is something that leagues and sanctioning bodies have to deal with from time to time. Given the racing analogy, equipment "liberties" taken by Nascar teams is something that the league just finally had enough of and (very recently) went to a much harsher penalty regime: you get two chances to pass pre-race inspection and if you have a part or spec that fails post-race inspection, your finish is DQ'd.

When the NFL had a similar episode (Patriots "spygate" where the team was illegally videotaping opponent signals and calls from the opponent's own sideline in 2007), the NFL had to respond because the league had sent a memo out the year before clarifying that rule and making it clear as to what conduct was illegal. Then the Pats did that very thing the next year.

And actually reading that now just makes the Sean Payton suspension so much more bullcrap. Bountygate didn't give the Saints an unfair competitive advantage. Yes, Sean was warned about it - but so was Belichick regarding the surveillance. And what the Patriots were doing was far more engineered toward an illegal competitive advantage that what the Saints (allegedly) did. ?

 

[mc4saints]

The only thing I can figure is Moose is an Astros fan. If the Astros or any other team did this it can't be defended. Using Nascar, steroid Era, Pete Rose to compare doesn't make it lesser cheating.

Yea.... You still have to hit the ball but knowing it is off speed or fastball is huge!

No, they won't get punished very bad, nothing like the Saints got for phonygate but they should lose some draft picks at minimum.

This Astros already have a recent history with trying to cover something up. MLB knows that so they will be watching closely.

 

[The Moose]

The only thing I can figure is Moose is an Astros fan. If the Astros or any other team did this it can't be defended. Using Nascar, steroid Era, Pete Rose to compare doesn't make it lesser cheating.

Yea.... You still have to hit the ball but knowing it is off speed or fastball is huge!

No, they won't get punished very bad, nothing like the Saints got for phonygate but they should lose some draft picks at minimum.

This Astros already have a recent history with trying to cover something up. MLB knows that so they will be watching closely.

Not an Astros fan. No real punishment for this a I am more than sure.

Actually I only watch the world series now.

Just like I only watch huge boxing matches now.

Use to follow both they are too crooked for me. I think that the staggering amount that leagues and governing bodies take in they could at least try. That Astros cheat is just obvious if you actually pay someone to do the work and pay attention.

My baseball viewing left in the the juice era. When it was obvious they were roid monsters and looked like the Russian Olympic team it was over for me.

I am a huge cycling fan took years for me to come back to watching it from the doping.

The NFL is walking a fine line right now. It is crooked as hell but I love the saints. In fact I am a ticket holder but I don't buy the garb anymore since bountygate. Go to games in a black T-shirt and a wore out old saints cap as my protest.

If you have not seen it check out Icarus. Great documentary on the last Olympic cheating scandal. It won the Oscar! It is amazing.

 

[gwballin]

Nope don't think Jordan ever got caught gambling on the NBA.

Depends on which conspiracy theories you believe...

 

[The Moose]

Depends on which conspiracy theories you believe...

What the hell?

Really

 

[Zack Lee]

I think of this like race cars if you are not cheating you are not trying.

Yes is it wrong yep. Just like all the other home field tricks. How the field plays is done for the home team.

What would you expect out of a league that refused to test for performance enhancing drugs for ever. To the point the stars looked like cavemen.

Id say its a pretty big deal in baseball where you get just under or just over 50 percent of championship games in your stadium. Gain an advantage to get to the championship and then carry the advantage into that championship. Kind of takes the air out of the game.

 

[Merl]

Stealing signs is legal in baseball as long as it is done without the aid of electronics. A runner at second is perfectly within his right to relay a signal to the batter though if the opposing team catches on he will likely get a pitch in the ribs the next time he is up to hit. Also they can't use a non-player or coach in the process. I think I remember the Red Sox had a guy inside the wall in the 70's that was relaying signals and they were forced to stop.

 

[superchuck500]

Stealing signs is legal in baseball as long as it is done without the aid of electronics. A runner at second is perfectly within his right to relay a signal to the batter though if the opposing team catches on he will likely get a pitch in the ribs the next time he is up to hit. Also they can't use a non-player or coach in the process. I think I remember the Red Sox had a guy inside the wall in the 70's that was relaying signals and they were forced to stop.

Yeah the rule only prohibits use of technology - but clearly the Astros were using technology if the 2017 allegations are true.

But to Moose’s point - the league issues a memo to teams this past February reiterating the rule and specifically noted that any camera between the foul poles is illegal.

What are the odds that’s a coincidence? It’s likely that there were internal reports of it known by the league. Maybe it was more than one team suspected of doing it and they decided to just issue a memo. Or it’s possible that it was just the Astros and they didn’t want to tarnish one of the league’s best and most popular clubs.

But leagues often know about these things before informants go public.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/02/20/mlb-aims-crack-down-games-tradition-sign-stealing/

 

[Zack Lee]

What are the odds that’s a coincidence? It’s likely that there were internal reports of it known by the league. Maybe it was more than one team suspected of doing it and they decided to just issue a memo. Or it’s possible that it was just the Astros and they didn’t want to tarnish one of the league’s best and most popular clubs.

I was thinking similar. The stuff I read on twitter sounded like others had less sophisticated systems. But I disagree that this was done to protect a particular team more than any. It doesn't make sense to do it any other way if it is going to cast your champion or championship in a foul light. Its a black eye. I don't think anyone short of RG would handle it differently. You severely frown upon within the organization itself and try to keep the light of of the puppet strings.

 

[The Moose]

Id say its a pretty big deal in baseball where you get just under or just over 50 percent of championship games in your stadium. Gain an advantage to get to the championship and then carry the advantage into that championship. Kind of takes the air out of the game.

So I guess the tricks applied by the grounds crew to help the home team also take the air out so to say?

You know like how balls bunted don't roll foul.

Or turf a bit long and wet to slow down the visiting team fielding because your team plays small ball.

That is all cheating right?

If anyone really looking for stealing pitches watched those games looked at signs the listened would have figured it out.

MLB does not do that.

 

[Zack Lee]

So I guess the tricks applied by the grounds crew to help the home team also take the air out so to say?

You know like how balls bunted don't roll foul.

Or turf a bit long and wet to slow down the visiting team fielding because your team plays small ball.

That is all cheating right?

If anyone really looking for stealing pitches watched those games looked at signs the listened would have figured it out.

MLB does not do that.

I'm not the baseball guy many of you are but I would think all of that is within the rules or can be if it's within whatever guidelines are set up for grass. That would not be even what I would call the rubbing is racing stuff like stealing the signs is. Setting up an electronic surveillance system, which this in effect was is not within any rules, guidelines or most importantly - fans expectations of fair play


If most fans would be aghast at the extent of it, then that's a clear indicator it's a problem. I'm guessing you are in the minority there. Maybe not a small minority but a minority nonetheless

 

[Grumpy Old Manatee]

So I guess the tricks applied by the grounds crew to help the home team also take the air out so to say?

You know like how balls bunted don't roll foul.

Or turf a bit long and wet to slow down the visiting team fielding because your team plays small ball.

That is all cheating right?

If anyone really looking for stealing pitches watched those games looked at signs the listened would have figured it out.

MLB does not do that.

Bad analogy.

Both teams have to play on the same diamond. It's not like the grounds crew comes out between every hitter and mows or sods the infield based on the opposing hitter's tendencies.

Do teams contour the grass and dirt based on their opponents? Yes, but it hardly compares to the home team using technology to tip pitches to hitters.

 

[gwballin]

What the hell?

Really

I don’t subscribe, but some have argued that Jordan’s first retirement was in lieu of a suspension for gambling in order to preserve the integrity of the game.

All parties involved have denied it of course.

 

[225Saint]

If MLB simply evolved with technology like the NFL has, they wouldn't even have this problem.

Why not just build catcher's helmets with a transmitter in them like Quarterback football helmets? The pitchers can wear a little bluetooth mic and tell the catcher what he's about to throw. He could cover his mouth with the glove so that the hitters don't see what he's saying (like playcallers in the NFL do with their call sheet).

Easy fix. I understand not getting rid of umpires even though technology could easily make a perfectly officiated game (human error is a part of the sport), but this is a no-brainer IMO if this sort of cheating is running rampant around the league.