Excuses excuses.... (1 Viewer)

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Da Beast

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... I've seen too many people here try to justify why our CBs are as bad as they are. Ranging from.... "we need a better pass rush" to "our safeties need to protect our CBs".

How about we simply get some CBs that can freakin COVER?!?!?! That way the safety is free to play at the line ala Baltimore. That way our pass rush can generate some 'coverage' sacks. Has anyone ever heard of those?

We simply need to address the problem and quit hoping that it will get better one day magically by fixing everything else. Too many people on this board have it backwards. JMHO.
 

jlroby69

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I don't think it's an issue of justification. The best corners in the league can't cover without a pass rush, and the best pass rush in the league can't do their job if the CBs don't cover. It's really all about balance, which is why we need an upgrade to the Safety, Linebacker, and Corner positions. Focusing all of our time on one position won't get us to where we want to go next year.
 

d3vanj

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It lies in the fact that the qb has 5-8 seconds to read the coverage and find an open reciever. No CB in the NFL can cover for that long without letting off a pass. If they had 2-3 seconds to throw before he had lets say Alberta Haynseworth in his face then he's going to make mistakes, going to give turnovers, and the CBs aren't going to look so bad. Now Jason David, he is just horrible.
 

mark1

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It lies in the fact that the qb has 5-8 seconds to read the coverage and find an open reciever. No CB in the NFL can cover for that long without letting off a pass. If they had 2-3 seconds to throw before he had lets say Alberta Haynseworth in his face then he's going to make mistakes, going to give turnovers, and the CBs aren't going to look so bad. Now Jason David, he is just horrible.
thats just incorrect

in our case people were throwing all over us with two seconds or ten seconds to throw.

david getting smoked all day long has nothing to do with lack of pass rush
 

DavidM

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Yes, the Saints need to upgrade in the secondary.

But I don't think it's an "excuse" to say that the pass defense would improve dramatically with a stronger front seven, capable of generating consistent pressure, and taking some heat of the DBs. DBs, by nature of the position, have to react -- the WR/TE/RB know where they're going on the play. Getting pressure forces QBs into bad throws and uspets the timing of routes; improving the chances of the DBs to maintain coverage, jump routes, and makes plays. Given enough time, the typical NFL QB will be able to find an open man.

Coverage sacks? That's a facet but when I think of the better NFL defenses over the years -- the common denominator is most often a stout line and/or linebacking corps. Not saying they didn't also have good/great players in the seconday, but I think more often than not, it started up front.

Are there any great defenses that stand out primarily on the strength of its secondary? Not saying there aren't -- just not sure the better defenses established themselves from the perimeter.

Also not saying stronger defenses don't subsequently have strong secondaries, but I think there's a cause-effect relationship some mitigate.

But it isn't an either/or anyway. To really improve, the Saints need to bolster every level of the defense -- line, LBer, secondary. But getting better at the line and LBer, IMO, has the more immediate, and more far-reaching impact -- both against the pass and run.
 

boutte

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Other than (hopefully) Usama Young we have no corner backs worthy of the name. Judging from last year we have no one who can rush the passer. Good thing we have such good LBs. OH! Wait.

Man, we're in trouble!
 

GoldRush26

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... I've seen too many people here try to justify why our CBs are as bad as they are. Ranging from.... "we need a better pass rush" to "our safeties need to protect our CBs".

How about we simply get some CBs that can freakin COVER?!?!?! That way the safety is free to play at the line ala Baltimore. That way our pass rush can generate some 'coverage' sacks. Has anyone ever heard of those?

We simply need to address the problem and quit hoping that it will get better one day magically by fixing everything else. Too many people on this board have it backwards. JMHO.

That's because we need a better pass rush and our safeties need to protect our CBs. You make it sound as if all we need to do is upgrade the CB situation and all is well. I don't care who you put back there in the secondary, if you can't get to the QB, receivers are eventually going to find openings. And I don't know what you mean by that Baltimore reference, because they have a pass rush.

Conversely we would be able to minimize the weakness of our CBs if we upgraded the front 7. Your front 7 ultimately is more important than your secondary, because they are also counted on to stop the run. You can't look to improve this entire D by focusing on one position.
 
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You make it sound as if all we need to do is upgrade the CB situation and all is well. I don't care who you put back there in the secondary, if you can't get to the QB, receivers are eventually going to find openings. And I don't know what you mean by that Baltimore reference, because they have a pass rush.

Conversely we would be able to minimize the weakness of our CBs if we upgraded the front 7. Your front 7 ultimately is more important than your secondary, because they are also counted on to stop the run. You can't look to improve this entire D by focusing on one position.
You are actually making my point for me. I am saying that we need to pay attention to every aspect of this defense. I have simply heard too many people shoot down the idea of drafting/signing a CB in hopes that improving the line will somehow turn them into All Pros. I am simply calling for an upgrade at CB as well as everywhere else.

And the B-More reference was simply to reflect that their safeties play at the line of scrimmage more than any other team. Which helps with run support. A luxury afforded by having an outstanding secondary.
 

d3vanj

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thats just incorrect

in our case people were throwing all over us with two seconds or ten seconds to throw.

david getting smoked all day long has nothing to do with lack of pass rush
If you would actually read what I said..

d3vanj said:
Now Jason David, he is just horrible.
 

meily

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you build from the trenches, thats on offense and defense, you dont need mediocre DB's but you dont have to have elite shutdown corners, just some corners with talent, but you do need a front seven that can cause havoc if not accounted for, all we thought was Smith and Grant were gonna provide the pass rush, the linebackers cant rush and the DT's cant rush.
 

DavidM

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I'm curious about that as well. I can't recall hearing or reading anything from fans that suggests we're okay with the CBs on the roster. But if that's the case, it has to be a very, very small minority.
 

GoldRush26

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You are actually making my point for me. I am saying that we need to pay attention to every aspect of this defense. I have simply heard too many people shoot down the idea of drafting/signing a CB in hopes that improving the line will somehow turn them into All Pros. I am simply calling for an upgrade at CB as well as everywhere else.

And the B-More reference was simply to reflect that their safeties play at the line of scrimmage more than any other team. Which helps with run support. A luxury afforded by having an outstanding secondary.

The idea is that you should start with improving the front 7. That's why most would rather have our team select Sedick Ellis or Keith Rivers with our first round draft pick. In an ideal world they could upgrade everything equally, but with the draft taking shape it's becoming more obvious that we can help ourselves the most by picking a DT or LB early.
 

Sniper Wolf

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I'm curious about that as well. I can't recall hearing or reading anything from fans that suggests we're okay with the CBs on the roster. But if that's the case, it has to be a very, very small minority.
Heck, I haven't read anything about the Saints CB's that can't be summed up "Anyone not named McKenzie or Young should pack their stuff and get out."
 

GoldRush26

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Heck, I haven't read anything about the Saints CB's that can't be summed up "Anyone not named McKenzie or Young should pack their stuff and get out."

Although we all know it's not going to work out like that. Jason David will get another shot. With the contract that he signed, Loomis will approach Payton with something like

"Look we can't get rid of him, so you're gonna have to do something with him to make it work next year."

I guess by some weird twist of fate, the McKenzie injury may force their hand in free agency. Had McKenzie not have been injured, I doubt they would do anything outside of the draft.
 
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