Excuses excuses.... (1 Viewer)

[GoldRush26]

Heck, I haven't read anything about the Saints CB's that can't be summed up "Anyone not named McKenzie or Young should pack their stuff and get out."

Although we all know it's not going to work out like that. Jason David will get another shot. With the contract that he signed, Loomis will approach Payton with something like

"Look we can't get rid of him, so you're gonna have to do something with him to make it work next year."

I guess by some weird twist of fate, the McKenzie injury may force their hand in free agency. Had McKenzie not have been injured, I doubt they would do anything outside of the draft.

 

['79 Saints]

Indeed, except for Will Smith, Mike McKenzie and Scott Fujita (and even those three have come under fire), I thing the prevailing opinion is that everyone else could be replaced.

But just to set the record straight, Toi Cook, Robert Massey, Regnald Jones and Vince Buck weren't All Pros, much less HOFers, yet they could hold their ground most of the time because of the pass rush generated by the Dome Patrol and Jim Wilks, Frank Warren, Jumpy Geathers and Wayne Martin.

 

[BoroSaint]

Just a little FYI that I heard Pat Kirwan mention on Sirius this morning:

Jason David was the 8th highest paid cornerback in the NFL during the 2007-2008 season.




Lets face it, David already screwed us. He's not getting more expensive for us to keep because his contract was front-loaded. I say cut your losses with him and get us an infusion of new blood at CB. I say we keep McKenzie and Young, sign 2 FAs, and draft one in round 1 or 2.

And on the issue at hand, as others have stated, there has to be a balance. There is a reason the offenses and defenses must work as a team. When one part malfunctions, the whole unit will suffer. We MUST get players who will play their assignment (and not bite on every play fake like JD) and can make plays. Hopefully we make the changes necessary to vastly improve our pass D and maintain (and hopefully improve) our run D at the same time.

 

[kt saint]

It seems to me you want to rate the importance of each position. If I were doing that, I would do it by how I think the Saints use their players. What they ask their players to do.

This is how it seems to me.

D-line Stop the run first, contain the passer second, sack the passer
third


Line Backers Stop the run first, drop into coverage second
in blitz situations sack passer first.

safeties pass coverage first, stop the run second.if called on to blitz
sack passer first.

Corners Cover first, if the ball passes the line of scrimmage stop run
second.

This year I have hardly ever seen our D-line just tee off and go after the QB. I think it is because we don't trust our backer to fill the gaps and get the loose man.

The safeties have been out of position all year. I think this is because they were asked to cover to much field. They are responsible for helping the corners deep but also the backers in the short field.

The corners play man mostly but are taught to cover by what type of help they will have. it's like herding the receivers, there a certain routes they can run when everyone is in the right place. When someone is out of place it open new, unexpected, routes that the receivers can run making them less predictable than they should be.

It seems to me that the entire defense is trying to cover for the linebackers. So, as much as I would love to get a big hoss at DT and a shutdown corner. I think the thing that would help our defense the most would be a good LB core who could cover for the D-line and Safeties, freeing them up to be more aggressive. A roaming middle linebacker to play from sideline to sideline would be first priority

This would not fix all of our problems but it would help the most.

 

[snake pliskin]

I think everyone agrees our secondary was weak, but our lack of talent up front exposed them even more. Look, Denver had Champ Bailey and Dre Bly, but because they were terrible in the front seven, two of the best corners in the NFL had minimal impact.

 

[#1 superbowlsaint]

read my avi!

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Who?

Exactly. Almost all the post are screaming for secondary help. :dunno:

 

[Speck Killer]

I'm gonna try to just go through this one time and hopefully the ones that don't get it will when I am done. You will not and cannot draft a corner who can start from day one and make and impact without lottery type luck. That aint gonna happen, the Saints have never had lottery luck so what makes anyone think we would have some now. You are 38 under the cap. You have to go out and get real impact starters not just some dude who started on a good team. This will be the most crucial homework the Saints braintrust has had to do probably ever. They have to find 2 real starters at corner. They can get an impact linebacker in the first round but again they better do thier homework because we cannot afford a mess up. Everyone should get out there head right now though that we can try and pick a starter corner with the 10th pick or any other pick in the first round. It aint gonna happen, rarely if ever does and sure wont happen for us. Spend the money and bring in bonafide players. Not specimens, football players. I dont care how big they are, I just want to know if they stop passes and intercept the ball. Linebackers, can you tackle period. Wide reciever, can you catch a football. Your forty time means nothing to me especially if you cannot catch. The reason I bring all this up is it seems that some on the board think we can draft impact players for next year. That is super hard to do. I do believe you build through the draft but you cannot count on your first rounders coming in and making all-pro. All I am saying is please do not expect too much out of a rookie. See Meachem for your example, although I have never seen that happen.

 

[AARPSaint]

I'm gonna try to just go through this one time and hopefully the ones that don't get it will when I am done. You will not and cannot draft a corner who can start from day one and make and impact without lottery type luck. That aint gonna happen, the Saints have never had lottery luck so what makes anyone think we would have some now. You are 38 under the cap. You have to go out and get real impact starters not just some dude who started on a good team. This will be the most crucial homework the Saints braintrust has had to do probably ever. They have to find 2 real starters at corner. They can get an impact linebacker in the first round but again they better do thier homework because we cannot afford a mess up. Everyone should get out there head right now though that we can try and pick a starter corner with the 10th pick or any other pick in the first round. It aint gonna happen, rarely if ever does and sure wont happen for us. Spend the money and bring in bonafide players. Not specimens, football players. I dont care how big they are, I just want to know if they stop passes and intercept the ball. Linebackers, can you tackle period. Wide reciever, can you catch a football. Your forty time means nothing to me especially if you cannot catch. The reason I bring all this up is it seems that some on the board think we can draft impact players for next year. That is super hard to do. I do believe you build through the draft but you cannot count on your first rounders coming in and making all-pro. All I am saying is please do not expect too much out of a rookie. See Meachem for your example, although I have never seen that happen.

Agree 100%. Get TWO legitimate starting FA CB's. Forget Mike McKenzie exists because he won't be ready for the beginning of the season. He might never come back to his best playing form, and I hate to say that because he played extremely well. Use the draft for the other defensive positions that need bolstering. Something has to be done about the lack of a pass rush because you can't expect the secondary to cover receivers for 10 seconds while the QB stands in the pocket.

I think that the front office was deceived by the play of the defense in 2005. Let's face it: they overachieved.

 

[MississippiSaint]

Indeed, except for Will Smith, Mike McKenzie and Scott Fujita (and even those three have come under fire), I thing the prevailing opinion is that everyone else could be replaced.

But just to set the record straight, Toi Cook, Robert Massey, Regnald Jones and Vince Buck weren't All Pros, much less HOFers, yet they could hold their ground most of the time because of the pass rush generated by the Dome Patrol and Jim Wilks, Frank Warren, Jumpy Geathers and Wayne Martin.

 

[CoolBrees1]

I don't think it's an issue of justification. The best corners in the league can't cover without a pass rush, and the best pass rush in the league can't do their job if the CBs don't cover. It's really all about balance, which is why we need an upgrade to the Safety, Linebacker, and Corner positions. Focusing all of our time on one position won't get us to where we want to go next year.

Ahhh....words of wisdom...

As Mr. Miyagi said..."You must maintain balance Danielson"

 

[Ti Rider]

This team had mediocre corner backs during nearly all of the "Dome Patrol" era. Yet teams struggled to pass on that D. It was hard for opposing QBs to find their receivers with Pat Swilling and Rickey Jackson bearing down on them. I've heard over and over for years watching football "Give any QB, even a bad one, enough time and they will find an open receiver". We saw that again and again last year. With a fat Will Smith and fat Charles Grant waddling slowly toward the QB that QB was almost finding the open man. The Saints need a pass rush.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying the team doesn't need to upgrade the CB position. McKenzie's is 32 and coming off a serious knee injury. Craft's also 32 and probably won't be retained. David will be a Saint next year. He signed a fairly cheap frontloaded contract. Even though he's ill suited for Gibbs' man cover scheme he should end up nickel or dime. Usama Young well he seemed to be progressing early on. Then he hit a wall despite increased playing time. We'll have to see it if he's ready to step up. But with the possibility of MM missing most if not all the season and the only other CBs being David and Young...they desperately need help and a pass rush.

 

[Treybad]

... I've seen too many people here try to justify why our CBs are as bad as they are. Ranging from.... "we need a better pass rush" to "our safeties need to protect our CBs".

How about we simply get some CBs that can freakin COVER?!?!?! That way the safety is free to play at the line ala Baltimore. That way our pass rush can generate some 'coverage' sacks. Has anyone ever heard of those?

We simply need to address the problem and quit hoping that it will get better one day magically by fixing everything else. Too many people on this board have it backwards. JMHO.

Baltimores safities are allowed too roam thanks too there Linebackers not there cornerbacks......

 

[Pain_Link_Fence]

... I've seen too many people here try to justify why our CBs are as bad as they are. Ranging from.... "we need a better pass rush" to "our safeties need to protect our CBs".

How about we simply get some CBs that can freakin COVER?!?!?! That way the safety is free to play at the line ala Baltimore. That way our pass rush can generate some 'coverage' sacks. Has anyone ever heard of those?

We simply need to address the problem and quit hoping that it will get better one day magically by fixing everything else. Too many people on this board have it backwards. JMHO.

Baltimore's defense was just as bad against the deep pass as the Saints'.
It will take far more than a new cornerback or two to fix the secondary, and they need to start with the FS position because of it's definition.
Kind of like treating a hemorrhage- you must stop the bleeding first, then fix what's wrong.
What they do to address that doesn't necessarily mean replacing Bullocks; they can also change how they use him.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Baltimores safities are allowed too roam thanks too there Linebackers not there cornerbacks......

Baltimore has a great tandem of CB's. I think Chris Mcalister probably helps matters.