Failure of Screen passes today (1 Viewer)

TCUDan

Cutting the lead blocker
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Here's some basic explanation... what I feel was the cause from a coaching perspective.



Bush is dangerous on screens, but I would argue that he would have to be set up better (like any player). To do this, you have to not compartmentalize him as much in the running game (i.e. just giving him heavily designed/gimmicky/situational carries) and give him more of those regular runs.

This started last year when Mike Bell and PT were both factored into the running game. This gave Bush fewer inside carries and regular, big on big runs (which he can absolutely run)... and more of those outside zones and draws.

DC's #1 priority for Bush is defending him in space. Their #1 priority with Thomas is containing his (inside) rushing on early downs. This is because of their skill types and how they are used.

When Thomas is in the backfield... especially on those PA screens... the gaps are being squeezed. With Bush, defenders are playing more conservatively, not attacking the inside rushing lanes and are in better position to see the screen develop.

Screens, much like draws and play action, have to be set up. This includes setting up your personnel to run them. The flaw wasn't in the design or in the player... it's in the setup (or lack thereof).


We didn't set him (or any of our backs) up for the screen game because we fell behind early and had to throw. We didn't have the time and space to stubbornly assert the running game. So even though we may have been facing a strong pass rush and thought we could take advantage of it, the screens were obviously being sought out by the defense when Reggie Bush was in the backfield.

If you want to see this in action, watch the fake screen to Bush that ended up being a completion to Colston down the seam. Watch the defenders react to the fake. With most backs, that's one defender (the one who is responsible for the back or the flats). On that play, 3 players instantly moved with the playfake, abandoning their assignments and giving Colston space down the middle. Obviously, like most defenses, their #1 priority for Reggie Bush was containing him in space.

The dilemma is that with our weapons, there aren't enough snaps to focus on setting up a single player to make big plays. What's more prudent is to set up the offense to make big plays. So are you going to continue to move Bush around and split him out to draw coverage and create space in the passing game. Or are you going to put him in I formation and get him some regular carries to set him up for a big play on a screen later in the game.

I don't believe in abandoning plays because they didn't work the first time, but when they haven't worked all game, late in the game on a critical down is not the best time to go back to them.
 
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I also agree Dan. But let me add that with the lack of any sort of running game by any of our RB's adds to this...
 
So what you are saying, you have to have a balanced offense to successfully run screens. I concur, good post.
 
I also agree Dan. But let me add that with the lack of any sort of running game by any of our RB's adds to this...

I agree, and I think that you have to look first at the Ravens being a stout run D, and second at us falling behind. Then you take into account the lack of complimentary football (when our defense stopped the Ravens, we didn't score, and when our offense scored, the defense couldn't stop the Ravens), the conditions needed to assert the running game weren't there.

I think the screen game is important against an aggressive defense. But I think you look to set up jailbreak screens at the LOS (be it to Bush split out or any of the receivers) rather than anything coming out of the backfield.
 
The dilemma is that with our weapons, there aren't enough snaps to focus on setting up a single player to make big plays.

Therefore when you do get the ball you BETTER make something happen with it. And that very well may be simply turning it up to get positive yards EVERY play so the next play is more managble. Don't do the tango out there. Turn it up!
 
Great analysis. I agree that the screen was not setup properly. We should've tried another couple of fakes to Bush, since they were so focused on it. After 3 or 4 fakes, then throw it, and it would've been a big play. Payton failed to adjust to the defense's focus. We almost broke the one fake that we tried, somi'm very surprised that we didn't try it again.
 
Therefore when you do get the ball you BETTER make something happen with it. And that very well may be simply turning it up to get positive yards EVERY play so the next play is more managble. Don't do the tango out there. Turn it up!

Turn it up into a wall of defenders?

You're criticizing a player for not falling forward for a loss of 3 instead of a loss of 4. My one criticism of Reggie Bush is that he tries to do too much... which he did on 1 play today.

I have a hard time criticizing a player for busting his butt.

You're obviously (by stalking my posts) looking for reasons to criticize Bush or to make me eat my words. The bottom line is that those broken screens were not his fault. And that 91-yard drive that ended in a TD was in large part because of him.

You want to stir stuff up, go somewhere else. You want to continue arguing, I'd kindly ask that we do it on one of the other 3 threads... because I'd like to keep this one about football discussion.
 
So what you are saying, you have to have a balanced offense to successfully run screens. I concur, good post.

Actually, I'm not saying that at all. In fact, the point was not setting up the plays, but rather setting up the player (particularly a player that defenses devote extra time in their gameplan toward) to run a screen. When you've been using him in space all game, then there is no reason for the defense to not play him conservatively, in which case they are now in perfect position to stop the screen.

You want to see how to set up a player in the screen game, see: Ray Rice.
 
Turn it up into a wall of defenders?

You're criticizing a player for not falling forward for a loss of 3 instead of a loss of 4. My one criticism of Reggie Bush is that he tries to do too much... which he did on 1 play today.

I have a hard time criticizing a player for busting his butt.

You're obviously (by stalking my posts) looking for reasons to criticize Bush or to make me eat my words. The bottom line is that those broken screens were not his fault. And that 91-yard drive that ended in a TD was in large part because of him.

You want to stir stuff up, go somewhere else. You want to continue arguing, I'd kindly ask that we do it on one of the other 3 threads... because I'd like to keep this one about football discussion.

Not interested. I am bowing out of this for good. Others can praise you for your "great analysis" but I wont be one of them. There comes a time when a ball player has to have instincts to run and not dance. Now carry on with the admiration party...
 
Not interested. I am bowing out of this for good. Others can praise you for your "great analysis" but I wont be one of them. There comes a time when a ball player has to have instincts to run and not dance. Now carry on with the admiration party...

lol. Obviously you do not either know enough about football or just care not to acknowledge that there is truth to what TCU is saying. Either way, glad to see you go.
 
One issue is also this: The Saints are very effective in the 2 minute offense when they use it. They get their best matchup personnel on the field (Colston, Bush, Graham) and they take advantage of the defense with tempo and mismatches, not letting them substitute personnel and adjust.

But they are not a 2-minute team. So much of the offense is based on formations and personnel. While the 2-minute offense is effective, it also limits them and prevents the offense from using its full arsenal/maximizing its ability.

It seems like, at times, the Saints' offense has too many of those "good" problems... if that is possible.
 
Setting up a player is ONE approach to offense. However, it is one that was tried ad nauseum for two years with Reggie. Rice is easier to setup for because he runs through the hole with consistency, power and speed. Reggie did none of this today. This was probably his second-worst game since he's been back, Dallas being the worst, of course.

Today was not the day for setting up Reggie. Except for his value in the 2-min offense, which has always been great because the defense plays deep and allows Reggie to run away from man-to-man underneath, he was worthless today. I don't think it was because the Saints didn't set him up. I think it was because he's not an outdoor less-than-perfect weather on-the-grass type back. Never was and isn't now. Today was the day for Chris Ivory especially against a good defense, but, of course, Ivory was hurt. So, the next-best option was to run PT about 15 times up the middle and SET HIM UP with the screen pass. PT is much better than Reggie at running screens anyway. So, he was the obvious choice for me today to focus the running attack on.

Unfortunately, Payton didn't have a game plan to focus on the run. His game plan was focused on the pass. Look at the ratio in the first quarter or so. The Saints passed 18 times and ran five times, and they were only down by a TD. There's no way to chalk that up to "getting behind". That's just coming into the game not really wanting to run.
 
It's all SP's fault that Reggie can't run the ball!! I love it. That was sarcasm by the way. I would say Reggie should get at least a little of the blame for why he can't rush the ball. Seems to me like your argument could be used against you. SP won't give Reggie inside rushes. Shouldn't that make the times that he DOES get an inside rush a total surprise to the other team opening up possibilities?? I'm just glad to know that Reggie is not the one responsible for the fact that he cannot rush the ball effectively and has not done so on a consistent basis for any season that he has been in the NFL. SP should be ashamed of himself for ruining Reggie's career.

Kris
 

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