Fair Tax (1 Viewer)

[Redlands Saints]

national sales tax is a tax on the poor...
just do a damn flat tax and call it a day...

a flat tax with no deductions?

 

[Sandman]

national sales tax is a tax on the poor...
just do a damn flat tax and call it a day...

Not if you exempt items such as food. You can even have a "luxury" tax on luxury items, so that the rich that buy the luxury items are guaranteed to pay more in taxes.

My problem with the flat tax is that at the end of the year, you still have to gather up all your documents and tell the government what you made and where it is kept. Plus, the IRS bureaucracy remains in place.

 

[City Champ]

Huckabee's plan involved some sort of rebate based on income or something like that - he said the poor would reap the greatest benefit

people say alot of things...
isnt it easier just to make a flat tax with no deductions and pull the cash straight from your check???

seems to me if you really wanted to cut down on red tape and make a system fair, this would be the way to go...
what the hell do i know, im not a republicrat...

 

[Goats]

Heck, they've already done that here in Texas. I know attorneys that have been out of work for over a year, and the market sucks. It's about time we start making accountants targets on the "let's legislate their income away" bandwagon.

Im all for more regulation of accountants. Any Joe off the street can go take a 6 week class at H&R block, screw up your tax return, charge you for it and face minimal consequences. On the other hand, I went went to college, passed the CPA exam and If I act in the same manner as some of these preparers my career is over.

 

[SoonerJim]

national sales tax is a tax on everyone added to what we have now
just do a damn flat tax and call it a day...

FIFY

 

[Goats]

Not if you exempt items such as food. You can even have a "luxury" tax on luxury items, so that the rich that buy the luxury items are guaranteed to pay more in taxes.

But then your 30k car is going to be considered a luxury item. Then the fed is going to forget to adjust for inflation and 10 years from now your new fridge is going to be taxed as a luxury item.

/justhavingfun

 

[Sandman]

FIFY

Oh, and repeal the 16th Amendment. You're right. Sooner or later someone will try and bring back the income tax on top of the sales tax in place.

 

[Jonesy77]

Im all for more regulation of accountants. Any Joe off the street can go take a 6 week class at H&R block, screw up your tax return, charge you for it and face minimal consequences. On the other hand, I went went to college, passed the CPA exam and If I act in the same manner as some of these preparers my career is over.

They don't have to be CPAs to prepare your taxes? WTH?

 

[Tapxe]

First, that is quite a leap you have made there, and it is along the lines of scare tactics. If what you say were true, wouldn't we already be experiencing this with the state taxing authorities enforcing their sales taxes? :dunno:

I didn't mean it to come across as a scare tactic. In my mind, I was being a little sarcastic as I said it based on stories like Ruby Ridge etc. I realize that didn't get through in my post and I apologize.

There are already folks doing things to avoid sales tax, but when the bulk of the revenue for the fed comes from sales tax it will get exponentially worse as folks realize how much they have to pay. That is what will cause an uptick in under ground activity which will have to be countered by agents. If it's an underground organization or person, then there is an inherent risk of violence from enforcement as those sorts are generally not as caring as the bulk of the population.

 

[Pure Energy]

national sales tax is a tax on the poor...
just do a damn flat tax and call it a day...

Flat tax = Income tax

You don't do away with the problems you have today because you still have to determine what a person made for the year. True it's easier for W-2 types but we're still left with the problems of determining corporate earnings and small business owners. Plus you have the same decisions of whether you tax social security and windfalls from inheritance, etc.

national sales tax is a tax on the poor.
The Fairtax has a provision to send a check to every US citizen (called a "prebate") to cover the living expenses for the poor. It's quite possible in some cases a person making a small income could get more money from the prebate than they earn through salary/wages. Paying illegal immigrants in "Cash" wouldn't have the same effect it has today where that income isn't claimed and no taxes are collected on it. Why?

Because everyone in essence would be paid in "Cash" (no deductions except for your employee benefits) so it doesn't matter. Here are the highlights and click this link for he particulars:

Recap of Prebate Facts:

All U.S. residents will get the prebate to ensure no one pays taxes on basic necessities like food, clothing and housing.

The prebate will be paid in advance, in equal monthly installments.

The prebate will be determined by what the poverty level is for an individual or a family, multiplied by the FairTax percentage rate.

Why is it fair for everyone to get the prebate?

It is fair because everyone is treated the same.

Everyone gets the rebate, so there are no exceptions. If we only gave it to the poor, then we would have to determine who is "poor," and that opens the door to exceptions.


One final point, Fairtax has support from Dems, Republicans and Independents.

 

[Sandman]

But then your 30k car is going to be considered a luxury item. Then the fed is going to forget to adjust for inflation and 10 years from now your new fridge is going to be taxed as a luxury item.

/justhavingfun

You don't have to classify "luxury" just by the cost of the item. I wouldn't consider a $20-30k car a "luxury" item. A $60-70K car would be, by way of example. Jewelry is a luxury. I'm not saying this is perfect and there will be issues, but I think it can be a hell of a lot better than the system we have.

 

[Tapxe]

Oh, and repeal the 16th Amendment. You're right. Sooner or later someone will try and bring back the income tax on top of the sales tax in place.

Some hold the view that it was never approved, but it should be repealed just to be certain.

This was posted a while back here, but kind of slipped away. Very interesting points, but I've not investigated the other side of the argument. Of course, nobody seemed to want to present that other side despite his efforts.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=54&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

[SoonerJim]

I can see Obama/Hillary's ad now: "I'm fiscally responsible, the other side wants a 30% tax increase." The government will pocket the sum, fold it into a VAT, and keep the income tax. Obama will remove the SS cap on incomes over 97K.

Add all of them up, and we're in Scandanavia without the blonde buxom goodness.

 

[Jeff Miller]

A progressive national retail sales tax.

I'm ok with this. Without a federal income tax it will free up thousands of dollars for people to spend (or save) so I wouldn't expect a negative impact on the economy. Plus, you would have direct control over your tax amount. I would like to see this limited to products and services with an exemption for untilties and morgage payments, and a cap on home purchases.

A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.

Absolutely NOT. the poor make more use of government services than any other economic group, if they are going to be the benificiearies of such services, then should pay into them just like everyone else. No one should ever pay 0 tax.

Dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality.

I'm good with that, with an exception for defense spending during wartime.

Repeal of the 16th Amendment through companion legislation.

Or at the very least, clairfy it with every explicit limitations. I doubt it will ever be repealsed. Once you give the government power to tax, they will never, ever, let that power go.

 

[LSSpam]

The core problem of a "Fair Tax" is, from a logical standpoint, the heaviest burden falls on the Middle Class, as they "spend" a significantly larger portion of their income in the retail sector then the richest income bracket, and therefore a higher percentage of middle class income will end up being taxed then (wealthier tax brackets). This makes the tax fundamentally regressive, as opposed to progressive, which is from a base logic perspective fundamentally stupid.

To get around this a lot of different bells and whistles are being attached to the idea, such as a cross-board rebate that will proportionally mean more to the poorest and not taxing "necessities" like food.

But then you're falling into the exact same trap you're supposed to be getting away from, which is the income tax with all of it's assorted bells and whistles (deductions, exceptions, credits, etc).