Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (14 Viewers)

guidomerkinsrules

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Eh, it's probably me not understanding you. I think the shows should feel like an extension of the movies since they are connected.
Agreed that they should tell the same story
disagree that they should tell it the me way
- how about this, movies are the arena rock show with giant video screens and pyrotechnics
tv is the same set but unplugged in an intimate venue - let’s you actually hear the lyrics and music
 

Scorpius the Allfather

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Agreed that they should tell the same story
disagree that they should tell it the me way
- how about this, movies are the arena rock show with giant video screens and pyrotechnics
tv is the same set but unplugged in an intimate venue - let’s you actually hear the lyrics and music
Nope, give me giant video screen pyrotechnics in my unplugged intimate venue.
 

Scorpius the Allfather

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Cool, we are at an aesthetic impasse
as for me, I hope my side wins bc I can already get the movie experience with the movies and I want more fill in the blanks stuff
I don't see why we can't have both. Why can't a fill in the blanks stuff have a movie element to it? And to touch on what you said about winning. Winning? I'm not even keeping score. I can't find it but there was a meme of that making fun of Charlie Sheen's winning with Emelio's picture saying that.
 

DaveXA

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Nope, give me giant video screen pyrotechnics in my unplugged intimate venue.
Yep, and I think this will be more of the future. I'm more of an all of the above guy, lol.

And what I mean is that presentation in something of a movie at home feel is because we're more accustomed to getting our movie fixes at home rather than theaters.
 

tenordas

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tbc i loved the 1st 2 episodes - and i don't know from the tik tok (and it's a fairly lame logical fallacy)
i think you're right in that an episode (or any content) either draws you in or pulls you out
i was pulled out of the episode
i was meh about the Madripool toss custard Gotham thing - everything was very grounded in 1st 2 episodes - the bikes, music, lighting, dialogue, snake drink (What the Fork!??), et al was from a different show - not necessarily a bad show but not TFATWS
but the Sam cellphone thing was just bad bad bad - ******* on that character just for a stupid shootout bit
and the sharon carter character ex machina 'can' work (maybe with Hawkeye or the like) -it just didn't here
plus they gave her a bag of exposition and the character did not move an iota
I agree with you about the cell phone scene. That was a pretty lazy 'deus ex machina' basically to edit out a series of events that would have needed to happen to run the progression of the interaction with that character. Decidedly lazy writing.

However, I disagree with your take overall on the episode. I thought we still got some very good character development in this episode, but some of it was subtle., and some was done through the action sequences rather than through dialogue.
In the Madripoor bar scene that you decry, we got a sense of just how tentative Bucky's control over his power is. He absolutely unloaded on those thugs and tore them apart, even though he actively is trying to avoid violent confrontation. I thought Sebastian Stan did an excellent job of showing through his facial expression and body language just how difficult a time Bucky is having with internal struggles over his sense of identity.

But particularly, I felt we got a lot of fleshing out of Baron Zemo. I thought his diatribe on the plane about Captain America and idol worship told us a lot about him. The real character depth, though, came through his actions rather than his words:
1) Without any real emotion, he cold-bloodedly killed the guy who'd cracked the super soldier serum
2) When he had ample opportunity to escape Sam and Bucky, not only did not flee from them, he found a way to help them escape their immediate danger.
Between his words on the plane and his actions, we have a much better picture of who Zemo is. He certainly doesn't consider himself a villain, nor is he in a classic sense. Unlike typical villains, his actions are not motivated through selfish motives of making himself rich, famous, or powerful. His motivations clearly are to protect humanity from super powered being, which he perceives to be a great threat to all people. He comports himself as a crusader, not a villain (or a hero). As such, he has no reason to try and skip out on Sam and Bucky since they are useful in getting him toward his goal of eradicating the world of these new super soldiers.
Zemo might turn on Bucky in the end, but I don't think he would have any reason to turn on Sam since Sam does not possess unnatural powers. Bravo to the writers for that, because they have made this Zemo far more interesting than the one in the comics.
 
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Scorpius the Allfather

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I agree with you about the cell phone scene. That was a pretty lazy 'deus ex machina' basically to edit out a series of events that would have needed to happen to run the progression of the interaction with that character. Decidedly lazy writing.

However, I disagree with your take overall on the episode. I thought we still got some very good character development in this episode, but some of it was subtle., and some was done through the action sequences rather than through dialogue.
In the Madripoor bar scene that you decry, we got a sense of just how tentative Bucky's control over his power is. He absolutely unloaded on those thugs and tore them apart, even though he actively is trying to avoid violent confrontation. I thought Sebastian Stan did an excellent job of showing through his facial expression and body language just how difficult a time Bucky is having with internal struggles over his sense of identity.

But particularly, I felt we got a lot of fleshing out of Baron Zemo. I thought his diatribe on the plane about Captain America and idol worship told us a lot about him. The real character depth, though, came through his actions rather than his words:
1) Without any real emotion, he cold-bloodedly killed the guy who'd cracked the super soldier serum
2) When he had ample opportunity to escape Sam and Bucky, not only did not flee from them, he found a way to help them escape their immediate danger.
Between his words on the plane and his actions, we have a much better picture of who Zemo is. He certainly doesn't consider himself a villain, nor is he in a classic sense. Unlike typical villains, his actions are not motivated through selfish motives of making himself rich, famous, or powerful. His motivations clearly are to protect humanity from super powered being, which he perceives to be a great threat to all people. He comports himself as a crusader, not a villain (or a hero). As such, he has no reason to try and skip out on Sam and Bucky since they are useful in getting him toward his goal of eradicating the world of these new super soldiers.
Zemo might turn on Bucky in the end, but I don't think he would have any reason to turn on Sam since Sam does not possess unnatural powers. Bravo to the writers for that, because they have made this Zemo is far more interesting than the one in the comics.
Zemo is one of the best "villains" the Marvel movies have produced. Not only did he not die after debuting, he actually won in Civil War. My biggest complaint against the movies is that the bad guy most likely dies at the end. Klaw(I know he was in Ultron but I'm not counting that one) was awesome in Black Panther but he dies. I understood it but I didn't like Thanos blipping away in Endgame. I was the only person that booed when that happened(the theater cheered).
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I agree with you about the cell phone scene. That was a pretty lazy 'deus ex machina' basically to edit out a series of events that would have needed to happen to run the progression of the interaction with that character. Decidedly lazy writing.

However, I disagree with your take overall on the episode. I thought we still got some very good character development in this episode, but some of it was subtle., and some was done through the action sequences rather than through dialogue.
In the Madripoor bar scene that you decry, we got a sense of just how tentative Bucky's control over his power is. He absolutely unloaded on those thugs and tore them apart, even though he actively is trying to avoid violent confrontation. I thought Sebastian Stan did an excellent job of showing through his facial expression and body language just how difficult a time Bucky is having with internal struggles over his sense of identity.

But particularly, I felt we got a lot of fleshing out of Baron Zemo. I thought his diatribe on the plane about Captain America and idol worship told us a lot about him. The real character depth, though, came through his actions rather than his words:
1) Without any real emotion, he cold-bloodedly killed the guy who'd cracked the super soldier serum
2) When he had ample opportunity to escape Sam and Bucky, not only did not flee from them, he found a way to help them escape their immediate danger.
Between his words on the plane and his actions, we have a much better picture of who Zemo is. He certainly doesn't consider himself a villain, nor is he in a classic sense. Unlike typical villains, his actions are not motivated through selfish motives of making himself rich, famous, or powerful. His motivations clearly are to protect humanity from super powered being, which he perceives to be a great threat to all people. He comports himself as a crusader, not a villain (or a hero). As such, he has no reason to try and skip out on Sam and Bucky since they are useful in getting him toward his goal of eradicating the world of these new super soldiers.
Zemo might turn on Bucky in the end, but I don't think he would have any reason to turn on Sam since Sam does not possess unnatural powers. Bravo to the writers for that, because they have made this Zemo is far more interesting than the one in the comics.
i'll give you zemo, but it came at the expense of fridging sam and bucky
and i think zemo stuck with them bc he wants access to Isiah (tbc, i'm not putting that in the bad writing category - that would actually be some good story telling)
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Zemo is one of the best "villains" the Marvel movies have produced. Not only did he not die after debuting, he actually won in Civil War. My biggest complaint against the movies is that the bad guy most likely dies at the end. Klaw(I know he was in Ultron but I'm not counting that one) was awesome in Black Panther but he dies. I understood it but I didn't like Thanos blipping away in Endgame. I was the only person that booed when that happened(the theater cheered).
StarLord was the villain of IW and he survived
 

Scorpius the Allfather

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StarLord was the villain of IW and he survived
I'm sure you're joking but what he did was necessary. Strange said there was only one way to win. He didn't lay it out but Thanos had to initially win in order for them to defeat him thus what Star Lord did was for the greater good and part of the plan.
 

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I'm sure you're joking but what he did was necessary. Strange said there was only one way to win. He didn't lay it out but Thanos had to initially win in order for them to defeat him thus what Star Lord did was for the greater good and part of the plan.
Well, one could argue that there wasn’t one in the 14+ million futures where Star Lord wasn’t a complete idiot, so the variables were all beyond that point. I suspect it’s hard to find a future where he didn’t lose it in that moment.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I'm sure you're joking but what he did was necessary. Strange said there was only one way to win. He didn't lay it out but Thanos had to initially win in order for them to defeat him thus what Star Lord did was for the greater good and part of the plan.
No, in all of those iterations Strange saw that Star Lord was going to be an idiot ensuring they would have to time dance
He’s an idiot
 

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