Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (1 Viewer)

Scorpius the Allfather

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This show was more my speed, but I really enjoyed WV as well. They're so different it's hard to compere them because they're so completely different.
I'm only comparing my enjoyment of them. I really enjoyed Wandavision as well but our theories about who and what was happening were much better then what we got.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I just don't think it does. And regardless, the story isn't finished yet. We don't know that the recognition is the only or even primary concern. We know his other concerns. Sam has acknowledged that. The government did at least acknowledge their mistake in how they handled Isaiah, first, by sanctioning and recognizing him through the memorial. I don't think that's the end. I'm sure that because they sanctioned the memorial, they would also restore his status to whatever it was supposed to be when he was disappeared and expunge any blemish on his records for when he was imprisoned.

Maybe we get that in a future show or movie. I just think you're jumping the gun on a story that didn't get fleshed out fully, and maybe is being saved for later because of time limitations.

I don't think Isaiah wants recognition. If anything, he'd already given up any hope of justice and decided to stay disappeared on his own terms. He clearly has other more important concerns, but the recognition given to him by Sam and the memorial is a starting point for possibly addressing those concerns he has. He acknowledged that through his reaction. I'm pretty sure he realizes this will be a long process, and Sam is the one who got the ball rolling.

I'll just have to agree to disagree on the Sharon comparison. I just don't think it's apt comparison because they're completely different circumstances. The similarities between them are superficial at best.
you bring up another point i hadn't thought of (and increases the comparison to sharon's story)
Sam (obviously), Sharon, Zemo andn Walker all get very clear TBC 'closures'
Karli (obviously), Isiah and Bucky (kinda sorta) get buttons on their stories
we know that Bucky is going forward, but the show gives zero indication that there is any path forward for Isiah
obviously we all hope we get more Isiah (Carl Lumbly is the best part of a mostly great cast), but the story leaves no threads for him- his story was tied up more than anyone else's (except for Karli)

OTOH, i heard someone talking today about how Marvel doesn't do finales - it's just not part of comics infrastructure
we can guess/hope that there is more in store
but that still doesn't mean the writers crafted Isiah's arc (they did not)
 

DaveXA

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you bring up another point i hadn't thought of (and increases the comparison to sharon's story)
Sam (obviously), Sharon, Zemo andn Walker all get very clear TBC 'closures'
Karli (obviously), Isiah and Bucky (kinda sorta) get buttons on their stories
we know that Bucky is going forward, but the show gives zero indication that there is any path forward for Isiah
obviously we all hope we get more Isiah (Carl Lumbly is the best part of a mostly great cast), but the story leaves no threads for him- his story was tied up more than anyone else's (except for Karli)

OTOH, i heard someone talking today about how Marvel doesn't do finales - it's just not part of comics infrastructure
we can guess/hope that there is more in store
but that still doesn't mean the writers crafted Isiah's arc (they did not)
I guess time will tell. But just on the button closures, we don't know what else was there in terms of arc for those characters. With Covid, and other considerations happening during the show's production, maybe a bit more on Isaiah had originally been in the cards. Some things reportedly did get cut out. They did off Karli, so while Marvel does often have open ended finales, it seems to me they closed the book on Karli. I don't think they've closed the book on Isaiah tho. But that's more a hunch on my part.

I agree there aren't much in the way of threads, but someone did mention Isaiah's son being a potential Young Avengers candidate, so who knows?

I hope to see more of Isaiah, or at the very least, address some of the concerns he had.

Interestingly enough, my oldest kid's name is Isaiah. I know we aren't agreeing on some of the finer points, but I'm enjoying the discussion. :9:
 

tenordas

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Indeed, but, the real one is rip, right? He died in the battle of Sokovia. But, some would argue the one from X-men is the real one, which I'm good with too.

With the multiverse being at the heart of the next Spiderman and Dr. Strange films, there was no reason not to go there, because they are indeed both the "real" Quicksilver in the multiverse scenario.
I'll still say they could double back on their stupid decision and decide that he really is Quicksilver come across after all. Easily done in either of the upcoming films.
 
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DaveXA

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With the multiverse being at the heart of the next Spiderman and Dr. Strange films, there was no reason not to go there, because they are indeed both the "real" Quicksilver in the multiverse scenario.
I'll still they could double back on their stupid decision and decide that he really is Quicksilver come across after all. Easily done in either of the upcoming films.

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. But, I suspect they're just gonna conveniently forget it ever happened. :hihi:
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I still don't understand the decision to remove an entire virus sublot. Film studios do their best to take advantage of current events and tell a relevant story. Must have been some political influence, which once again ruins things more than it helps.
you seemed to have started with your conclusion and worked backwards

this happens plenty - several movies/shows were delayed or shelved after 9/11
I know I’ve heard of a few that changed after the Vegas sniper
It happens
 

DaveXA

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I still don't understand the decision to remove an entire virus sublot. Film studios do their best to take advantage of current events and tell a relevant story. Must have been some political influence, which once again ruins things more than it helps.

I tend to agree, there have been many shows that cover current controversial topics. That said, Disney does have significant business interests in many parts of the world, so depending on what the virus plot called for, it may have been that Disney made an executive decision to cut it out. It's understandable, I think.

It's possible that it was cut out so late in the process that there was not enough time to produce it with the virus angle in a way that would add to the story without looking like an add on for the sake of it.

I do think there was more that went on behind the scenes than we know. It's also possible they could be saving it for a later show or movie, idk.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I tend to agree, there have been many shows that cover current controversial topics. That said, Disney does have significant business interests in many parts of the world, so depending on what the virus plot called for, it may have been that Disney made an executive decision to cut it out. It's understandable, I think.

It's possible that it was cut out so late in the process that there was not enough time to produce it with the virus angle in a way that would add to the story without looking like an add on for the sake of it.

I do think there was more that went on behind the scenes than we know. It's also possible they could be saving it for a later show or movie, idk.
For me the most egregious‘political/commercial’ decisions Disney makes us fridging gay characters to avoid Chinese censorship

I also wonder if Marvel pulls up from being too critical of US govt bc ‘international audiences’
 

DaveXA

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For me the most egregious‘political/commercial’ decisions Disney makes us fridging gay characters to avoid Chinese censorship

I also wonder if Marvel pulls up from being too critical of US govt bc ‘international audiences’

First paragraph...such as?

Second. Possibly, but, I think it's really a continuation of a pro-US theme that has long been a thrust of Marvel comics storytelling.

That said, there's plenty of making the US government look like a bunch of incompetents. Tony Stark made a living off of making our military and Congressional leaders look like idiots. Nick Fury and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, Avengers, and actually a lot of Marvel properties have been at odds with the US government. That's never really been a secret. So there may be some pulling back, but it seems there's plenty of us vs them when it comes to the US government. You wouldn't see anything like that with shows criticizing their own governments in China or Russia for example.

So if Marvel is pulling up, it's hard to tell from where I sit.
 

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