Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (1 Viewer)

All of the other serums were an attempt to recreate the serum Steve took. They aren’t as perfect as the original formula.

Also, Steve trained like crazy in addition to what the serum did. He wasn’t just a product of the serum. I don’t think the Flag Smashers really worked at continuing to work on their bodies.
 
Pretty sure it was part of the enhancement. Steve's body mass literally doubled from the procedure he went through. While the Super Soldiers gained superhuman strength and speed, their body mass wasn't changed to the degree Steve's was. Walker didn't look much different after he took the serum.

Steve's serum also pre-dated the serum the others took. I forget the character, maybe Red Skull, tried to develop a serum similar to Captain America, but it killed a lot of people before he got it working enough for Super Soldiers. I'm not very familiar with that part of what happened though. Maybe someone else can give a more detailed explanation.
Yeah everybody forgets about Stark and the vita rays
Also don’t know if it matters that the new serum is derived from Isiah - seemingly it does not make the ‘copies’ equal to Isiah since Isiah beat Winter Soldier
And Walker is a copy of a copy (right?) but seems stronger than his ‘parents’ (but maybe it’s just better combat training??)
 
During the Blip, the people left moved to settle and use resources/homes that were left abandoned by the disappeared. Countries were happy to have them because every nation on Earth suddenly had lost half their citizens/workers/taxpayers. When everyone came back, the GRC set up resettlement camps for people that were displaced and tried to restore order. They were about to vote to have military forces begin forced relocation to people’s countries of origin, and into these overcrowded, under stocked camps and restore traditional borders. The Flag Smashers wanted to stop them and live in a world without borders where people could freely go to where resources were available. One people, one world (Zemo boom).
Yes. And?

It just seemed like we were missing a lot of info or development. As far as MCU villainy goes this was just kinda lame IMO.

The Power Broker "reveal" was just flat.

But my biggest complaint is that we did not get a flashback to see young Isiah Bradley rip Bucky's arm off.
 
Yes. And?

It just seemed like we were missing a lot of info or development. As far as MCU villainy goes this was just kinda lame IMO.

The Power Broker "reveal" was just flat.

But my biggest complaint is that we did not get a flashback to see young Isiah Bradley rip Bucky's arm off.

I'm wondering if the condensed feeling of the show, only 6 episodes, is because of covid. I understand some parts were left out or not done and that may have been part of why the villains are not as developed as they are. Marvel spent a lot more time developing a long arc for Thanos. But then again, he was the biggest and baddest of the big bads. I don't think we've seen the next big bad yet, but it's coming, I would think.

The Power Broker reveal was sort of meh, but, they've been building up Sharon for a bit now, so her reveal wasn't all that surprising. Trying to do too much on that would make it feel a bit contrived to me.

I would have loved to see it, but both Bucky and Isaiah will probably be around a bit longer, so we may still see some flashbacks there. I think the writers were wanting to keep the focus more on Bucky finishing what he started with his amends. When he admitted he killed the man's (I can't recall his name) son, that part was especially poignant.

Overall, considering there was only six episodes, the character arcs for the villains would be understandably truncated a bit.
 
Yes. And?

It just seemed like we were missing a lot of info or development. As far as MCU villainy goes this was just kinda lame IMO.

The Power Broker "reveal" was just flat.

But my biggest complaint is that we did not get a flashback to see young Isiah Bradley rip Bucky's arm off.
Yes to the end
Reportedly the original through line was about a virus - they retooled everything when Covid hit
Also the Sharon actress is a lead in another show so her shoot schedule was very truncated
 
The Flagsmashers are the victim of onset rewrites/editing of already filmed material that dealt with a subplot involving a virus. Little is known about what exactly this entailed. Speculation has ranged from a virus sweeping through the relocation camps to the Flagsmashers using a virus to try and kill off a huge chunk of the population to return things to how they were during the Snap.

Whatever the case, their motives and storyline were heavily edited due to covid. And it's a fair criticism to say that you can tell that. But it was apparently a call made from higher ups (maybe even above Feige, so Disney itself) to ditch that storyline and patch things together due to not wanting to seem too similar to the covid situation.
 
The Flagsmashers are the victim of onset rewrites/editing of already filmed material that dealt with a subplot involving a virus. Little is known about what exactly this entailed. Speculation has ranged from a virus sweeping through the relocation camps to the Flagsmashers using a virus to try and kill off a huge chunk of the population to return things to how they were during the Snap.

Whatever the case, their motives and storyline were heavily edited due to covid. And it's a fair criticism to say that you can tell that. But it was apparently a call made from higher ups (maybe even above Feige, so Disney itself) to ditch that storyline and patch things together due to not wanting to seem too similar to the covid situation.
It's a fair criticism in a sense, but if it was out of their hands, is it really their fault? I dunno. Marvel/Disney has a lot of goodwill built up with me, and I really didn't miss it all that much. I'm a "the more the merrier" kind of guy, but I'm also fairly easy to please. I'm pretty happy overall tbh.
 
It's a fair criticism in a sense, but if it was out of their hands, is it really their fault? I dunno. Marvel/Disney has a lot of goodwill built up with me, and I really didn't miss it all that much. I'm a "the more the merrier" kind of guy, but I'm also fairly easy to please. I'm pretty happy overall tbh.

I'm not really bothered by it. This show was about the journey of Sam taking the shield and Bucky trying to find a place in the world again. They succeeded with that. Everything else was in service of getting there. Some of it was a little rocky at times, but the goal was achieved.
 
It's a fair criticism in a sense, but if it was out of their hands, is it really their fault? I dunno. Marvel/Disney has a lot of goodwill built up with me, and I really didn't miss it all that much. I'm a "the more the merrier" kind of guy, but I'm also fairly easy to please. I'm pretty happy overall tbh.
I put it in the ‘writers strike’ category- enjoy what you can out of it, but still comment on story (or like the denver saints game last year - you understand why they got the L, but it’s still an L)

what I don’t like is how the marvel meta stuff can influence story - I get that marvel wants to keep Sharon around for Thunderbolts or skrulls or whatever- but I REALLY don’t like the resolution of her story compared to Isiah’s - - she gets reparations and he gets a pat on the head. I can even wrap my head around ‘that’s what would happen in real life’ but they weren’t even going for that subtext. The text tells us that they both got what they deserved (even though Sharon didn’t do **** but get shot)
 
I'm not really bothered by it. This show was about the journey of Sam taking the shield and Bucky trying to find a place in the world again. They succeeded with that. Everything else was in service of getting there. Some of it was a little rocky at times, but the goal was achieved.

Agreed.
 
I'm not really bothered by it. This show was about the journey of Sam taking the shield and Bucky trying to find a place in the world again. They succeeded with that. Everything else was in service of getting there. Some of it was a little rocky at times, but the goal was achieved.
Sums up my feelings pretty succinctly.
 
what I don’t like is how the marvel meta stuff can influence story - I get that marvel wants to keep Sharon around for Thunderbolts or skrulls or whatever- but I REALLY don’t like the resolution of her story compared to Isiah’s - - she gets reparations and he gets a pat on the head. I can even wrap my head around ‘that’s what would happen in real life’ but they weren’t even going for that subtext. The text tells us that they both got what they deserved (even though Sharon didn’t do **** but get shot)
Sure, but I don't think the writers or very many people ever thought about that comparison though. Sharon was promised a pardon by Bucky (or was is Sam?) so that she could come back to the states. That was just a promise kept.

For Isaiah, that was a hell of a lot more than a pat on the head. He really appreciated the gesture by Sam, and acknowledged that Sam is blazing his own path while at the same time not forgetting the sacrifices Isaiah made, and he's now memorialized alongside Captain America in the museum. Isaiah is a man not easily impressed, yet this brought him to legitimate tears. I'm not sure how much better a gesture he can get there.
 
Sure, but I don't think the writers or very many people ever thought about that comparison though. Sharon was promised a pardon by Bucky (or was is Sam?) so that she could come back to the states. That was just a promise kept.

For Isaiah, that was a hell of a lot more than a pat on the head. He really appreciated the gesture by Sam, and acknowledged that Sam is blazing his own path while at the same time not forgetting the sacrifices Isaiah made, and he's now memorialized alongside Captain America in the museum. Isaiah is a man not easily impressed, yet this brought him to legitimate tears. I'm not sure how much better a gesture he can get there.
there is a giant works in progress statue to Crazy Horse down the road from Mount Rushmore - that statue by itself in no way shape or form makes amends for what befell him or the Lakota
 
Of course not, but this isn't that.
The heck it ain’t

secretly made him a super soldier, made him an assassin, locked him in solitary for 20 for doing his job, lied to him about his wife and her death, continued experimenting on him and torturing him, and then he gets disappeared
How does giving him a statue tucked behind the huge capt america room make amends for ANY of that much less all?
 

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