Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (1 Viewer)

livefromDC

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Lying about the Gulf of Tonkin and Nixion will do that


Honestly, I think the whole thing would have been better had be gotten Sam's story and Bucky's story told in separate series. I mean, the only thing that linked them was they were both friends with Steve. I'm not sure why they needed to be pushed into the same series. Especially when that series is only 6 episodes long. I think this would be a better series if it was only about Sam and there was a story about Bucky that could have been made that probably focused more on Wakanda and possibly the search for Zemo. Zemo wasn't really necessary to this story and probably would have worked better in a Winter Soldier stand alone series.

I think that like WandaVision, FaWS is best told through the lens of two characters. Wandavision is the love story. FaWS is the bro action comedy of unlikely partners that actually work well together. Tango & Cash, Lethal Weapon, 48 hours...Another 48 hours, Men in Black, Hobbs & Shaw, Rush Hour, Bad Boys, and my personal favorite...Hot Fuzz. I don't think that was the problem. I think the issues with the season was from having to alter the storyline. And ultimately, I get why they did it and don't think it ruins anything going forward because...

I think that unlike WandaVision, FaWS is meant to have multiple seasons.
There's no reason that Captain America and The Winter Soldier season 2 (or is it season 1) doesn't end as Captain America and the White Wolf
In other words, I think we can see a lot more of Buddy in season 2 growing into a different person. After all, they're still calling him the Winter Soldier. Perhaps his transformation isn't done yet, perhaps it's just starting.
 

DaveXA

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I think that like Wandavision, FaWS is best told through the lens of two characters. Wandavision is the love story. FaWS is the bro action comedy of unlikely partners that actually work well together. Tango & Cash, Lethal Weapon, 48 hours...Another 48 hours, Men in Black, Hobbs & Shaw, Rush Hour, Bad Boys, and my personal favorite...Hot Fuzz. I don't that was the problem. I think the issues with the season was from having to alter the storyline. And ultimately, I get why they did it and don't think it ruins anything going forward because...

I think that unlike WandaVision, FaWS is meant to have multiple seasons.
There's no reason that Captain America and The Winter Soldier season 2 (or is it season 1) doesn't end as Captain America and the White Wolf
In other words, I think we can see a lot more of Buddy in season 2 growing into a different person. After all, they're still calling him the Winter Soldier. Perhaps his transformation isn't done yet, perhaps it's just starting.
For sure, it's just starting. Maybe they intentionally left some developmental stuff open to be dealt with in future series.
 

St. Widge

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I think that like WandaVision, FaWS is best told through the lens of two characters. Wandavision is the love story. FaWS is the bro action comedy of unlikely partners that actually work well together. Tango & Cash, Lethal Weapon, 48 hours...Another 48 hours, Men in Black, Hobbs & Shaw, Rush Hour, Bad Boys, and my personal favorite...Hot Fuzz. I don't think that was the problem. I think the issues with the season was from having to alter the storyline. And ultimately, I get why they did it and don't think it ruins anything going forward because...

I think that unlike WandaVision, FaWS is meant to have multiple seasons.
There's no reason that Captain America and The Winter Soldier season 2 (or is it season 1) doesn't end as Captain America and the White Wolf
In other words, I think we can see a lot more of Buddy in season 2 growing into a different person. After all, they're still calling him the Winter Soldier. Perhaps his transformation isn't done yet, perhaps it's just starting.

It's possible that it is all about having further seasons and that's why the story lines don't feel complete. But, honestly, I just didn't buy the friendship between Sam and Bucky. It just seemed forced and with no real foundation other than both having a prior bromance with Steve Rogers.

I also have the say that the implication in Avengers: Infinity War was that Bucky's time in Wakanda healed him of his issues with having been the Winter Soldier. It just seemed odd to have him starting all this stuff of dealing with it now when it seemed that he was at peace with it when he is called to action in Infinity War.
 

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It's possible that it is all about having further seasons and that's why the story lines don't feel complete. But, honestly, I just didn't buy the friendship between Sam and Bucky. It just seemed forced and with no real foundation other than both having a prior bromance with Steve Rogers.

I also have the say that the implication in Avengers: Infinity War was that Bucky's time in Wakanda healed him of his issues with having been the Winter Soldier. It just seemed odd to have him starting all this stuff of dealing with it now when it seemed that he was at peace with it when he is called to action in Infinity War.
Yeah, I would say that while he might have found peace at Wakanda, re-integrating into the wider society is something different, and finding peace doesn't mean that his past has been resolved. That's a long, complicated process.
 

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It's possible that it is all about having further seasons and that's why the story lines don't feel complete. But, honestly, I just didn't buy the friendship between Sam and Bucky. It just seemed forced and with no real foundation other than both having a prior bromance with Steve Rogers.

I also have the say that the implication in Avengers: Infinity War was that Bucky's time in Wakanda healed him of his issues with having been the Winter Soldier. It just seemed odd to have him starting all this stuff of dealing with it now when it seemed that he was at peace with it when he is called to action in Infinity War.
the meta of phase 4 - other than coming to terms with/consequences of super powers - is 'what are the offspring of the Avengers?'
Ironman begets all sorts of 'iron' heroes, Wanda + Vision creates offspring which will be part of New Avengers, there will be be a new iteration of Thor, et al
Sam & Bucky are offspring of Cap - that seems to be enough
 

livefromDC

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It's possible that it is all about having further seasons and that's why the story lines don't feel complete. But, honestly, I just didn't buy the friendship between Sam and Bucky. It just seemed forced and with no real foundation other than both having a prior bromance with Steve Rogers.

I don't think you're wrong. That is EXACTLY what's going on. I don't think I would call what they have a friendship in the beginning either except for the common goal of 'doing what Steve would have done if he was still here' and disliking the new guy because he doesn't get what Steve was all about. For some different reasons, I think both of them see this guy as a fraud. Bucky knew Steve, long before he was Captain America. Sam was the closest person to Steve as Captain America. In both cases, the other person is the only person in the world that really understands this loss. That's the reason they are drawn to each other. How could they not try to work with each other? Steve, though he didn't understand what it would mean for Sam to take on the mantle (different discussion) would know that Sam would need Bucky's help and would want Bucky to help him. Steve also probably thought that Sam, someone that he considered a good friend, would also be the best person to be there for Bucky, someone else who comes from a different time period and could have trouble adjusting to the world outside the confines of Wakanda.

I also have the say that the implication in Avengers: Infinity War was that Bucky's time in Wakanda healed him of his issues with having been the Winter Soldier. It just seemed odd to have him starting all this stuff of dealing with it now when it seemed that he was at peace with it when he is called to action in Infinity War.

I've never been to Wakanda, but I'd imagine it's different than being in the rest of the world. Fighting is something we know he can do, so being called to action in Infinity War would not be hard. Finding your identity again in a real world setting has to be hard. He was the Winter Soldier for what 6 decades? (Forgive me I don't know canon) And the last time he was himself he was a basically a kid who joined the Army to fight Nazis. Not being the Winter Soldier is one thing. Being deprogrammed is one thing. Unless they replaced that programming with another (of course Shuri wouldn't have done that), that's all deprogramming does. He doesn't come back having an identity, friends and family, enjoying the NFL (non-existent) and podcasts. There's a void there. His identity, no one's identity for that matter, should be what they are not, i.e., not the Winter Soldier or not a Doctor or not a great swimmer, but who they are.

He's finally come to grips that he's not the Winter Soldier and trusts that those words won't reactivate something in him. He cares about the damage that was done by the Winter Soldier. I think by the end of the season, he's not just looking for ways to make himself feel better about what the Winter Soldier did, but how to make amends for the people affected by the Winter Soldier, in ways only he can do.
 
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livefromDC

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the meta of phase 4 - other than coming to terms with/consequences of super powers - is 'what are the offspring of the Avengers?'
Ironman begets all sorts of 'iron' heroes, Wanda + Vision creates offspring which will be part of New Avengers, there will be be a new iteration of Thor, et al
Sam & Bucky are offspring of Cap - that seems to be enough

Don't forget Hawkeye! Geez, what does he have to do to get some credit! He's an original Avenger for crying out loud. His series is about him passing on the name to his daughter, I believe.
 

St. Widge

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I don't think you're wrong. That is EXACTLY what's going on. I don't think I would call what they have a friendship in the beginning either except for the common goal of 'doing what Steve would have done if he was still here' and disliking the new guy because he doesn't get what Steve was all about. For some different reasons, I think both of them see this guy as a fraud. Bucky knew Steve, long before he was Captain America. Sam was the closest person to Steve as Captain America. In both cases, the other person is the only person in the world that really understands this loss. That's the reason they are drawn to each other. How could they not try to work with each other? Steve, though he didn't understand what it would mean for Sam to take on the mantle (different discussion) would know that Sam would need Bucky's help and would want Bucky to help him. Steve also probably thought that Sam, someone that he considered a good friend, would also be the best person to be there for Bucky, someone else who comes from a different time period and could have trouble adjusting to the world outside the confines of Wakanda.



I've never been to Wakanda, but I'd imagine it's different than being in the rest of the world. Fighting is something we know he can do, so being called to action in Infinity War would not be hard. Finding your identity again in a real world setting has to be hard. He was the Winter Soldier for what 6 decades? (Forgive me I don't know canon) And the last time he was himself he was a basically a kid who joined the Army to fight Nazis. Not being the Winter Soldier is one thing. Being deprogrammed is one thing. Unless they replaced that programming with another (of course Shuri wouldn't have done that), that's all deprogramming does. He doesn't come back having an identity, friends and family, enjoying the NFL (non-existent) and podcasts. There's a void there. His identity, no one's identity for that matter, should be what they are not, i.e., not the Winter Soldier or not a Doctor or not a great swimmer, but who they are.

He's finally come to grips that he's not the Winter Soldier and trusts that those words won't reactivate something in him. He cares about the damage that was done by the Winter Soldier. I think by the end of the season, he's looking for ways to just make himself feel better about what the Winter Soldier did, but how to make amends for the people affected by the Winter Soldier, in ways only he can do.

All good points and frankly, I want to see the things you brought up fleshed out on screen. I'm just a bit disappointed that we didn't get that in this series and I'm not sure how it would have fit in this series if they tried to do it. But, like you said, maybe that's for future seasons.
 

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All good points and frankly, I want to see the things you brought up fleshed out on screen. I'm just a bit disappointed that we didn't get that in this series and I'm not sure how it would have fit in this series if they tried to do it. But, like you said, maybe that's for future seasons.
Yeah, I'm kind of hoping we'll see Isaiah in future seasons also.
 

JLaneSaints

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the meta of phase 4 - other than coming to terms with/consequences of super powers - is 'what are the offspring of the Avengers?'
Ironman begets all sorts of 'iron' heroes, Wanda + Vision creates offspring which will be part of New Avengers, there will be be a new iteration of Thor, et al
Sam & Bucky are offspring of Cap - that seems to be enough

It seems to me that the "read between the lines" purpose of the TV shows are to set up Young Avengers. You get Billy and Tommy (Wiccan and Speed), FaWS set the grounds for Patriot, and I will assume that Loki will at some point transition into kid Loki, and of course the Hawkeye series will give us young Hawkeye. Then factor in Stature from the next Ant Man movie, and Miss America Chavez from Dr. Strange, and Young Avengers will be shaping up nicely.
 

livefromDC

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It seems to me that the "read between the lines" purpose of the TV shows are to set up Young Avengers. You get Billy and Tommy (Wiccan and Speed), FaWS set the grounds for Patriot, and I will assume that Loki will at some point transition into kid Loki, and of course the Hawkeye series will give us young Hawkeye. Then factor in Stature from the next Ant Man movie, and Miss America Chavez from Dr. Strange, and Young Avengers will be shaping up nicely.

Where does Ms. Marvel fit in? Is she part of Young Avengers?
 

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Where does Ms. Marvel fit in? Is she part of Young Avengers?

Comics, no. Original Young Avengers was Patriot, Young Vision, Loki, Wiccan, Speed, Hawkeye (Kate Bishop, not the one the TV series will have), Stature and Hulkling.


Now, the MCU does do things slightly different, so I could see her on the team for the MCU, and would be perfectly fine with that.
 

Brock Meaux

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Comics, no. Original Young Avengers was Patriot, Young Vision, Loki, Wiccan, Speed, Hawkeye (Kate Bishop, not the one the TV series will have), Stature and Hulkling.


Now, the MCU does do things slightly different, so I could see her on the team for the MCU, and would be perfectly fine with that.
Kate Bishop will be in the Hawkeye series. Played by Hailee Steinfeld.
 

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