Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (3 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

The heck it ain’t

See more

secretly made him a super soldier, made him an assassin, locked him in solitary for 20 for doing his job, lied to him about his wife and her death, continued experimenting on him and torturing him, and then he gets disappeared
How does giving him a statue tucked behind the huge capt america room make amends for ANY of that much less all?

See more

You do realize the statue/memorial is only a part of this overall story, right? And to basically ignore Isaiah's reaction seems to totally disrespect Sam's efforts at beginning to make this right. It feels like you're calling the whole scene worthless. Both Sam and Isaiah thought this was meaningful.

This isn't supposed to make amends. This is supposed to begin rewriting the the story for Isaiah. The amends are coming in the form of Sam becoming Captain America and paving a new road for himself and Isaiah. Sam believes in what he's doing and he also is trying to include Isaiah in that transformative process. It's not all going to happen overnight. I mean, since you seem to hate how this ended, how would you write it then?

Edit: I'd also add that Isaiah is no longer invisible (disappeared) if he doesn't want to be. The memorial addresses that. And Sam gave him the choice to come out of the shadows of his despair and broken past. Understandably, Isaiah was reluctant at first. Sam understood that he needed to give Isaiah time to decide how to approach all of these changes. The memorial doesn't fix the past, but it does create an opportunity to open avenues for reconciliation. At the very least, it does recognize his sacrifices. And I think Isaiah is not only fine with that, but he also is appreciative of it.

 

[literature]

I have no idea what could be called incomprehensible or bizarre about it. It was very straightforward, wrapped up the major plot lines and character arcs, and teased further intrigue. I will say the show overall has had some editing issues that I attribute to them having to edit out the virus subplot with the flag smashers and retool everything around that, but aside from that, no.

Anyway...

See more

I'm 100% on the Sharon is a Skrull bandwagon. She hid her injury and refused medical treatment. Sharon Carter is the perfect person to impersonate to get the access she did at the end. And that level of character is perfect for a Skrull reveal in Secret Invasion. They're not going to invalidate any MAJOR characters, but someone on her tier? Sure. She's absolutely a Skrull.

LOL oh of course, the surreal and bizarre instance of her not seeking help makes total sense, you just have to know that Skrulls are coming in something called Secret Invasion. Sure, sounds fine lol

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Pretty sure it was part of the enhancement. Steve's body mass literally doubled from the procedure he went through. While the Super Soldiers gained superhuman strength and speed, their body mass wasn't changed to the degree Steve's was. Walker didn't look much different after he took the serum.

Steve's serum also pre-dated the serum the others took. I forget the character, maybe Red Skull, tried to develop a serum similar to Captain America, but it killed a lot of people before he got it working enough for Super Soldiers. I'm not very familiar with that part of what happened though. Maybe someone else can give a more detailed explanation.

Red Skull took the first version of the serum but he didn't have vita rays, it was still created by Doctor Erskine I think his name is?

 

[DaveXA]

Red Skull took the first version of the serum but he didn't have vita rays, it was still created by Doctor Erskine I think his name is?

Yeah, something like that. I couldn't remember if Red Skull had already beaten Steve to the punch. But yeah, Stark tech and Vita-rays is what made Steve a unique experiment.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Yeah, something like that. I couldn't remember if Red Skull had already beaten Steve to the punch. But yeah, Stark tech and Vita-rays is what made Steve a unique experiment.

That doctor defected to our side I believe so Red Skull had access to the serum. He took it and the doctor defected, created another one with Howard Stark involving the vita rays.

 

[Saint_Ward]

 

[Saint_Ward]

All of the other serums were an attempt to recreate the serum Steve took. They aren’t as perfect as the original formula.

Also, Steve trained like crazy in addition to what the serum did. He wasn’t just a product of the serum. I don’t think the Flag Smashers really worked at continuing to work on their bodies.

Yeah, remember, those flag smashers weren't exactly trained fighters.

It's why bucky, when he'd let himself go, and Walker could eventually beat then down. They're just far better trained.

If you remember, bullets still stopped Steve. He was just lucky Bucky grazed him and shot him in the torso away from anything vital (assumed).

But yeah, in Endgame, Cap was willing to go down fighting by himself. "I can do this all day"

And not only was his shield cut in half, he had a massive slash along his forearm. Shocked he didn't bleed out.

 

[TheRealJRad]

If you remember, bullets still stopped Steve. He was just lucky Bucky grazed him and shot him in the torso away from anything vital (assumed).

And he still ended up in the hospital, presumably in some sort of coma, for a spell. I don’t think they indicated how long he was there/was out, but the scene made me feel like it was more than just a couple hours.

I believe he has accelerated healing.

 

[nolaspe]

So, from what I've read in the past few pages, Vita Rays: it's got electrolytes, it's what super soldiers crave?

 

[Devildog]

So, from what I've read in the past few pages, Vita Rays: it's got electrolytes, it's what super soldiers crave?

Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho approves.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

See more

You do realize the statue/memorial is only a part of this overall story, right? And to basically ignore Isaiah's reaction seems to totally disrespect Sam's efforts at beginning to make this right. It feels like you're calling the whole scene worthless. Both Sam and Isaiah thought this was meaningful.

This isn't supposed to make amends. This is supposed to begin rewriting the the story for Isaiah. The amends are coming in the form of Sam becoming Captain America and paving a new road for himself and Isaiah. Sam believes in what he's doing and he also is trying to include Isaiah in that transformative process. It's not all going to happen overnight. I mean, since you seem to hate how this ended, how would you write it then?

See more

this is what i was talking about earlier when i think the show needed another 2-3 episodes bc only Sam gets a complete arc
none of the things you are saying are actual text (things we see/hear in the story)
i said what sold the scene was Carl's performance and i believe that - i think you are reading things into his performance, but textually we have him saying that no self-respecting black man would ever wear the stars and stripes
then we have Sam help beat the flagsmashers and rescue the GRC (which Isiah has not shown he has any relationship with - he was done dirty by the US govt which is only a part of the GRC and not really connected to his legit grievance)
Sam makes his speech to the senator and cameras which did not seem structurally different than the speech he had already given to Isiah to which Isiah reacted with the 'no self-respecting black man' line
Sam visits Isiah and Isiah gives him the 'i almost bought it' line and the 'you're not Malcolm/Martin' line - even if he was half kidding it still acknowledges that Sam's speech was rhetoric (with the tacit understanding that even with Martin & Malcolm's soaring rhetoric things really haven't gotten much better for african-americans)
then there is the walk through the room tucked away behind capt america's room - showing that Isiah not gets recognition - was that EVER anything Isiah said he wanted? he wanted to not have been experimented on and not to have been in prison when his wife died
there was no text in the show that said this was one step in a process - Isiah played it (believably) like he got validation (again, not what he said he wanted) - and Sharon got WAY more validation + restitution than Isiah got

 

[DaveXA]

See more

this is what i was talking about earlier when i think the show needed another 2-3 episodes bc only Sam gets a complete arc
none of the things you are saying are actual text (things we see/hear in the story)
i said what sold the scene was Carl's performance and i believe that - i think you are reading things into his performance, but textually we have him saying that no self-respecting black man would ever wear the stars and stripes
then we have Sam help beat the flagsmashers and rescue the GRC (which Isiah has not shown he has any relationship with - he was done dirty by the US govt which is only a part of the GRC and not really connected to his legit grievance)
Sam makes his speech to the senator and cameras which did not seem structurally different than the speech he had already given to Isiah to which Isiah reacted with the 'no self-respecting black man' line
Sam visits Isiah and Isiah gives him the 'i almost bought it' line and the 'you're not Malcolm/Martin' line - even if he was half kidding it still acknowledges that Sam's speech was rhetoric (with the tacit understanding that even with Martin & Malcolm's soaring rhetoric things really haven't gotten much better for african-americans)
then there is the walk through the room tucked away behind capt america's room - showing that Isiah not gets recognition - was that EVER anything Isiah said he wanted? he wanted to not have been experimented on and not to have been in prison when his wife died
there was no text in the show that said this was one step in a process - Isiah played it (believably) like he got validation (again, not what he said he wanted) - and Sharon got WAY more validation + restitution than Isiah got

See more

I get that you're making a comparison between Sharon and Isaiah, but it's a mistake to do so because you're comparing apples and oranges. That and I'm pretty sure the writers never drew that comparison. And again Sharon was invited back. Isaiah could be invited back, but I don't think Isaiah has any interest in that.

I get that he has the dialogue with Sam about not being Malcolm or MLK line. Bit clearly Isaiah has come around about Sam and he's begun to respect that Sam is Captain America. I few more episodes maybe flesges that out some more. There actually was supposed to be more, but may have gotten cut out. The primary characters were the ones who got the most fleshed out arcs.

I don't need actual text or even dialogue to tell that Isaiah is appreciative of the fact that Sam wants to show him the memorial. It's written all over his face. I would have liked more Isaiah in the show. Maybe that would more fully answer how he got there. Do we have to make some assumptions? Sure, but that happens a lot. We just have to go with what we see sometimes.

Maybe he'll get his own show down the road and we all get to see him battle Bucky. I'd be all in on that.

And let's face it, Isaiah probably doesn't care about Sharon's validation or restitution. I think he's past all that. That's clearly not in the show, but if he's come around on Sam, he's probably come around on some other things. And let's remember that Sharon was offered to come back by Sam. He essentially promised she could come back. That had nothing to do Isaiah, and I don't think the comparison is warranted or makes any sense.

 

[tenordas]

See more

I'm actually not convinced that Sharon is the Power Broker. I still think she's working for the Power Broker. The main reason for this is a scene in episode 4 (I think, might have been 3) in which she's talking to Sam/Bucky on the phone. For no apparent reason, she is bleeding from her lip and her hand had a bruise or something. Now, they had been in the fight at the docks, but we had seen her talking with them on the phone since then without any visible trauma. So, either the continuity people screwed up (which I doubt), or that was a clue that she had had to answer to someone about what had happened and that someone didn't react well.
So my current theory is she is the front man for the Power Broker when dealing with close in associates (like Karli) so the Power Broker's actual identity remains that much more secret.
Just my thoughts on it. I could be wrong, and she is the Power Broker, but that seemed too straight forward to me.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

See more

this is what i was talking about earlier when i think the show needed another 2-3 episodes bc only Sam gets a complete arc
none of the things you are saying are actual text (things we see/hear in the story)
i said what sold the scene was Carl's performance and i believe that - i think you are reading things into his performance, but textually we have him saying that no self-respecting black man would ever wear the stars and stripes
then we have Sam help beat the flagsmashers and rescue the GRC (which Isiah has not shown he has any relationship with - he was done dirty by the US govt which is only a part of the GRC and not really connected to his legit grievance)
Sam makes his speech to the senator and cameras which did not seem structurally different than the speech he had already given to Isiah to which Isiah reacted with the 'no self-respecting black man' line
Sam visits Isiah and Isiah gives him the 'i almost bought it' line and the 'you're not Malcolm/Martin' line - even if he was half kidding it still acknowledges that Sam's speech was rhetoric (with the tacit understanding that even with Martin & Malcolm's soaring rhetoric things really haven't gotten much better for african-americans)
then there is the walk through the room tucked away behind capt america's room - showing that Isiah not gets recognition - was that EVER anything Isiah said he wanted? he wanted to not have been experimented on and not to have been in prison when his wife died
there was no text in the show that said this was one step in a process - Isiah played it (believably) like he got validation (again, not what he said he wanted) - and Sharon got WAY more validation + restitution than Isiah got

When your life gets scrubbed out of history to where you can't even prove that you exist, I'm sure wanting to be recognized officially for anything is something you would want. He shouldn't have had to say it out loud for you to pick up on it.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

See more

I'm actually not convinced that Sharon is the Power Broker. I still think she's working for the Power Broker. The main reason for this is a scene in episode 4 (I think, might have been 3) in which she's talking to Sam/Bucky on the phone. For no apparent reason, she is bleeding from her lip and her hand had a bruise or something. Now, they had been in the fight at the docks, but we has seen her talking with them on the phone since then without any visible trauma. So, either the continuity people screwed up (which I doubt), or that was a clue that she had had to answer to someone about what had happened and that someone didn't react well.
So my current theory is she is the front man for the Power Broker when dealing with close in associates (like Karli) so the Power Broker's actual identity remains that much more secret.
Just my thoughts on it. I could be wrong, and she is the Power Broker, but that seemed too straight forward to me.

They couldn't even get the right amount of years right in the beginning of the first Spider-Man so it's completely logical that they could get the continuity wrong here.