Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (1 Viewer)

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DaveXA said:
I get that you're making a comparison between Sharon and Isaiah, but it's a mistake to do so because you're comparing apples and oranges. That and I'm pretty sure the writers never drew that comparison. And again Sharon was invited back. Isaiah could be invited back, but I don't think Isaiah has any interest in that.

I get that he has the dialogue with Sam about not being Malcolm or MLK line. Bit clearly Isaiah has come around about Sam and he's begun to respect that Sam is Captain America. I few more episodes maybe flesges that out some more. There actually was supposed to be more, but may have gotten cut out. The primary characters were the ones who got the most fleshed out arcs.

I don't need actual text or even dialogue to tell that Isaiah is appreciative of the fact that Sam wants to show him the memorial. It's written all over his face. I would have liked more Isaiah in the show. Maybe that would more fully answer how he got there. Do we have to make some assumptions? Sure, but that happens a lot. We just have to go with what we see sometimes.

Maybe he'll get his own show down the road and we all get to see him battle Bucky. I'd be all in on that.

And let's face it, Isaiah probably doesn't care about Sharon's validation or restitution. I think he's past all that. That's clearly not in the show, but if he's come around on Sam, he's probably come around on some other things. And let's remember that Sharon was offered to come back by Sam. He essentially promised she could come back. That had nothing to do Isaiah, and I don't think the comparison is warranted or makes any sense.
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a few things - the Sharon thing is my "oh and another thing" it is not my central concern
BUT
i promise you that if the writers have been in a high school creative writing class and beyond that they obsess about this stuff - they would not be in a marvel writing room if they did not have exquisite perspective of how their writing fits
plus the director and editor(s) are certainly thinking about this - the editor is making exactly these choices
and then, of course, it doesn't 'really' matter if it was intended or not - it's on the screen - there are 5-7 story arcs closing this episode, all of them comparable to all others

again, 'if there was more episodes' is what i'm saying - the 'rushed' ending exposed some story concerns/short cuts

also again, Isiah did not need to complete his circle with Sam bc his issue wasn't with Sam - he was Sam 60 years ago...until the govt did him dirty (sam didn't do him dirty) - the govt is really the only entity that can even try to make him whole (or make sure what happened to him doesn't happen again - and not even Sam is naive enough to believe that)
 
Scorpius the Allfather said:
When your life gets scrubbed out of history to where you can't even prove that you exist, I'm sure wanting to be recognized officially for anything is something you would want. He shouldn't have had to say it out loud for you to pick up on it.
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i'm not saying that it's no where on his list of concerns, i'm saying that he stated VERY clearly many concerns that certainly take precedence over recognition
the show making it about recognition gaslights the many other very legit concerns he has
 
guidomerkinsrules said:
i'm not saying that it's no where on his list of concerns, i'm saying that he stated VERY clearly many concerns that certainly take precedence over recognition
the show making it about recognition gaslights the many other very legit concerns he has
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I just don't think it does. And regardless, the story isn't finished yet. We don't know that the recognition is the only or even primary concern. We know his other concerns. Sam has acknowledged that. The government did at least acknowledge their mistake in how they handled Isaiah, first, by sanctioning and recognizing him through the memorial. I don't think that's the end. I'm sure that because they sanctioned the memorial, they would also restore his status to whatever it was supposed to be when he was disappeared and expunge any blemish on his records for when he was imprisoned.

Maybe we get that in a future show or movie. I just think you're jumping the gun on a story that didn't get fleshed out fully, and maybe is being saved for later because of time limitations.

I don't think Isaiah wants recognition. If anything, he'd already given up any hope of justice and decided to stay disappeared on his own terms. He clearly has other more important concerns, but the recognition given to him by Sam and the memorial is a starting point for possibly addressing those concerns he has. He acknowledged that through his reaction. I'm pretty sure he realizes this will be a long process, and Sam is the one who got the ball rolling.

I'll just have to agree to disagree on the Sharon comparison. I just don't think it's apt comparison because they're completely different circumstances. The similarities between them are superficial at best.
 
DaveXA said:
This show was more my speed, but I really enjoyed WV as well. They're so different it's hard to compere them because they're so completely different.
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I'm only comparing my enjoyment of them. I really enjoyed Wandavision as well but our theories about who and what was happening were much better then what we got.
 
DaveXA said:
I just don't think it does. And regardless, the story isn't finished yet. We don't know that the recognition is the only or even primary concern. We know his other concerns. Sam has acknowledged that. The government did at least acknowledge their mistake in how they handled Isaiah, first, by sanctioning and recognizing him through the memorial. I don't think that's the end. I'm sure that because they sanctioned the memorial, they would also restore his status to whatever it was supposed to be when he was disappeared and expunge any blemish on his records for when he was imprisoned.

Maybe we get that in a future show or movie. I just think you're jumping the gun on a story that didn't get fleshed out fully, and maybe is being saved for later because of time limitations.

I don't think Isaiah wants recognition. If anything, he'd already given up any hope of justice and decided to stay disappeared on his own terms. He clearly has other more important concerns, but the recognition given to him by Sam and the memorial is a starting point for possibly addressing those concerns he has. He acknowledged that through his reaction. I'm pretty sure he realizes this will be a long process, and Sam is the one who got the ball rolling.

I'll just have to agree to disagree on the Sharon comparison. I just don't think it's apt comparison because they're completely different circumstances. The similarities between them are superficial at best.
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you bring up another point i hadn't thought of (and increases the comparison to sharon's story)
Sam (obviously), Sharon, Zemo andn Walker all get very clear TBC 'closures'
Karli (obviously), Isiah and Bucky (kinda sorta) get buttons on their stories
we know that Bucky is going forward, but the show gives zero indication that there is any path forward for Isiah
obviously we all hope we get more Isiah (Carl Lumbly is the best part of a mostly great cast), but the story leaves no threads for him- his story was tied up more than anyone else's (except for Karli)

OTOH, i heard someone talking today about how Marvel doesn't do finales - it's just not part of comics infrastructure
we can guess/hope that there is more in store
but that still doesn't mean the writers crafted Isiah's arc (they did not)
 
guidomerkinsrules said:
you bring up another point i hadn't thought of (and increases the comparison to sharon's story)
Sam (obviously), Sharon, Zemo andn Walker all get very clear TBC 'closures'
Karli (obviously), Isiah and Bucky (kinda sorta) get buttons on their stories
we know that Bucky is going forward, but the show gives zero indication that there is any path forward for Isiah
obviously we all hope we get more Isiah (Carl Lumbly is the best part of a mostly great cast), but the story leaves no threads for him- his story was tied up more than anyone else's (except for Karli)

OTOH, i heard someone talking today about how Marvel doesn't do finales - it's just not part of comics infrastructure
we can guess/hope that there is more in store
but that still doesn't mean the writers crafted Isiah's arc (they did not)
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I guess time will tell. But just on the button closures, we don't know what else was there in terms of arc for those characters. With Covid, and other considerations happening during the show's production, maybe a bit more on Isaiah had originally been in the cards. Some things reportedly did get cut out. They did off Karli, so while Marvel does often have open ended finales, it seems to me they closed the book on Karli. I don't think they've closed the book on Isaiah tho. But that's more a hunch on my part.

I agree there aren't much in the way of threads, but someone did mention Isaiah's son being a potential Young Avengers candidate, so who knows?

I hope to see more of Isaiah, or at the very least, address some of the concerns he had.

Interestingly enough, my oldest kid's name is Isaiah. I know we aren't agreeing on some of the finer points, but I'm enjoying the discussion. :9:
 
DaveXA said:
Indeed, but, the real one is rip, right? He died in the battle of Sokovia. But, some would argue the one from X-men is the real one, which I'm good with too.
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With the multiverse being at the heart of the next Spiderman and Dr. Strange films, there was no reason not to go there, because they are indeed both the "real" Quicksilver in the multiverse scenario.
I'll still say they could double back on their stupid decision and decide that he really is Quicksilver come across after all. Easily done in either of the upcoming films.
 
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tenordas said:
With the multiverse being at the heart of the next Spiderman and Dr. Strange films, there was no reason not to go there, because they are indeed both the "real" Quicksilver in the multiverse scenario.
I'll still they could double back on their stupid decision and decide that he really is Quicksilver come across after all. Easily done in either of the upcoming films.
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Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. But, I suspect they're just gonna conveniently forget it ever happened. :hihi:
 

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