Film Study on Jameis 2019 Year ( Long Read ) (1 Viewer)

Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
179
Reaction score
587
Age
29
Location
El Paso Texas
Offline
Here a few notable " takeaways " ( See what I did there ) 🤣😂

1. Bruce Arians system without adequate protection is quite literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen. He wants to take deep shots , those kinds of routes take time to develop , if the QB isn't given that time he will likely make a poor throw into coverage where the defense has time to adjust to the ball. Just not good football honestly. Then there is often no checkdowns in their system ( Because they are using a back to help in protection ) It's actually impressive a guy can throw 33 TDs in this hair on fire scenario. When they fail to give their QB time , well you see how horrible Brady looked against us. The thought process is eventually you'll have a guy break open , which why if you can get enough protection , it looks pretty.


2.No high percentage looks. I liken this to basketball players taking half court shots with the defense right in their face. Even the Steph Curry's of the world won't have a favorable percentage doing that. Jameis doesn't get many high percentage looks or throws in this system. It's all boom or bust. There's no patented Alvin Kamara checkdowns , No Michael Thomas Slant , or even a half decent run game in these offenses.

3. 11 of those picks flat out weren't his fault. Receivers running wrong routes ( afraid to get popped ) balls being tipped , etc. In that system all receivers have multiple route combinations they can run. How the hell are you supposed to know where anyone will be with the defense barrelling down on you ? It's chaos .

4. When he gets time , and communication is clear between he and the receivers , He is up there with the very best of them in terms of ball placement , velocity , arm strength , pocket mobility etc ...
TD pass to Godwin in Atlanta , Only other guy that can make that throw is Mahomes. He even has a few Aaron Rodgers esque plays. I believe this is the guy we are getting here.

After breaking down the film here is how I think Payton is going to use him.

1. Eliminate the trivia out of where everyone is going to be. Clear concise routes.
2. Provide adequate protection.
3. Leave explosive checkdowns for him ( Kamara , Harris )
4. Run the leather off the ball , which creates high percentage looks for him in the playaction game. I'd even go as far as to say , 50 percent of his throws need to come from playaction.
5. Live to fight another down when something isn't there.
6. Utilize the screen game to nullify the defensive front.
7. Having to deal with all of that , a defense will almost always let someone get behind their coverage , which Jameis can most certainly take advantage of.

What killed him in Tampa is stuff Payton would never ask anyone to do.So I think he's going to be great here.


It sounds asinine to say , but I wholeheartedly think we've got our guy.
 

jasonsw

Long live Duke and Goose
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
3,580
Reaction score
8,686
Age
40
Location
Bastrop
Offline
Here a few notable " takeaways " ( See what I did there ) 🤣😂

1. Bruce Arians system without adequate protection is quite literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen. He wants to take deep shots , those kinds of routes take time to develop , if the QB isn't given that time he will likely make a poor throw into coverage where the defense has time to adjust to the ball. Just not good football honestly. Then there is often no checkdowns in their system ( Because they are using a back to help in protection ) It's actually impressive a guy can throw 33 TDs in this hair on fire scenario. When they fail to give their QB time , well you see how horrible Brady looked against us. The thought process is eventually you'll have a guy break open , which why if you can get enough protection , it looks pretty.


2.No high percentage looks. I liken this to basketball players taking half court shots with the defense right in their face. Even the Steph Curry's of the world won't have a favorable percentage doing that. Jameis doesn't get many high percentage looks or throws in this system. It's all boom or bust. There's no patented Alvin Kamara checkdowns , No Michael Thomas Slant , or even a half decent run game in these offenses.

3. 11 of those picks flat out weren't his fault. Receivers running wrong routes ( afraid to get popped ) balls being tipped , etc. In that system all receivers have multiple route combinations they can run. How the hell are you supposed to know where anyone will be with the defense barrelling down on you ? It's chaos .

4. When he gets time , and communication is clear between he and the receivers , He is up there with the very best of them in terms of ball placement , velocity , arm strength , pocket mobility etc ...
TD pass to Godwin in Atlanta , Only other guy that can make that throw is Mahomes. He even has a few Aaron Rodgers esque plays. I believe this is the guy we are getting here.

After breaking down the film here is how I think Payton is going to use him.

1. Eliminate the trivia out of where everyone is going to be. Clear concise routes.
2. Provide adequate protection.
3. Leave explosive checkdowns for him ( Kamara , Harris )
4. Run the leather off the ball , which creates high percentage looks for him in the playaction game. I'd even go as far as to say , 50 percent of his throws need to come from playaction.
5. Live to fight another down when something isn't there.
6. Utilize the screen game to nullify the defensive front.
7. Having to deal with all of that , a defense will almost always let someone get behind their coverage , which Jameis can most certainly take advantage of.

What killed him in Tampa is stuff Payton would never ask anyone to do.So I think he's going to be great here.


It sounds asinine to say , but I wholeheatly think we've got our guy.
Great analysis. I think Winston is in a great situation, a QB with great talent in the hands of an offensive wizard, Payton. Sean is going to have fun coming up with offensive gameplzns tailored to Winston's strengths.
 

TenTwo

Are you touched in the head or something?
VIP Contributor
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
7,427
Reaction score
9,726
Location
Follow the yellow brick road
Offline
Really good post. I think his biggest limitation right now is his experience in the system. He and MT were not on the same page last week, I think that was apparent. Only so much will be gleaned during practice this week. Its one thing to know and study film, it's another to learn the muscle memory and timing with receivers. Hopefully he's studying his butt off this week and working hard to be ready for Atlanta. I'm sure Sean will have a good plan for him.
 

ndcc

Saints' fan 4ever
VIP Subscribing Member
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
18,632
Reaction score
25,505
Location
Sad to leave NOLA to AZ; going into ministry
Offline
Here a few notable " takeaways " ( See what I did there ) 🤣😂

1. Bruce Arians system without adequate protection is quite literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen. He wants to take deep shots , those kinds of routes take time to develop , if the QB isn't given that time he will likely make a poor throw into coverage where the defense has time to adjust to the ball. Just not good football honestly. Then there is often no checkdowns in their system ( Because they are using a back to help in protection ) It's actually impressive a guy can throw 33 TDs in this hair on fire scenario. When they fail to give their QB time , well you see how horrible Brady looked against us. The thought process is eventually you'll have a guy break open , which why if you can get enough protection , it looks pretty.


2.No high percentage looks. I liken this to basketball players taking half court shots with the defense right in their face. Even the Steph Curry's of the world won't have a favorable percentage doing that. Jameis doesn't get many high percentage looks or throws in this system. It's all boom or bust. There's no patented Alvin Kamara checkdowns , No Michael Thomas Slant , or even a half decent run game in these offenses.

3. 11 of those picks flat out weren't his fault. Receivers running wrong routes ( afraid to get popped ) balls being tipped , etc. In that system all receivers have multiple route combinations they can run. How the hell are you supposed to know where anyone will be with the defense barrelling down on you ? It's chaos .

4. When he gets time , and communication is clear between he and the receivers , He is up there with the very best of them in terms of ball placement , velocity , arm strength , pocket mobility etc ...
TD pass to Godwin in Atlanta , Only other guy that can make that throw is Mahomes. He even has a few Aaron Rodgers esque plays. I believe this is the guy we are getting here.

After breaking down the film here is how I think Payton is going to use him.

1. Eliminate the trivia out of where everyone is going to be. Clear concise routes.
2. Provide adequate protection.
3. Leave explosive checkdowns for him ( Kamara , Harris )
4. Run the leather off the ball , which creates high percentage looks for him in the playaction game. I'd even go as far as to say , 50 percent of his throws need to come from playaction.
5. Live to fight another down when something isn't there.
6. Utilize the screen game to nullify the defensive front.
7. Having to deal with all of that , a defense will almost always let someone get behind their coverage , which Jameis can most certainly take advantage of.

What killed him in Tampa is stuff Payton would never ask anyone to do.So I think he's going to be great here.
I believe that most WhoDats appreciate posts of this quality analysis and depth of knowledge. I give this one 11 on a 10-point scale.

Well done.

:gosaints:
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
5
Reaction score
65
Age
46
Location
Orlando
Offline
Hey, Saints fans. Bucs fan here. Thanks for the butt kicking week before last. I'm hoping we get another shot at your guys the playoffs, but a lot of football to play still.

In the meantime, I'll be paying close attention to your QB situation. I'm a Bucs fan first and foremost, but I still have a lot of faith in Jameis and am anxious to see how he does given this opportunity. I posted today because the OP's analysis could not be more spot on.

He was put in a horrific situation in Tampa from day one. There was so much anticipation with Arians' "high power" offense coming in last year, but it was perhaps the worst possible fit. Couple Arians' vertical scheme and "no risk it, no biscuit"
mentality with JW's desire to please his coach and you get the high risk/high reward numbers we saw last year. It didn't help that, after every INT, Arians' kept telling JW to "keep chucking it."

Arians' scheme puts tremendous pressure on the O-line to hold blocks for a long time. It puts tremendous pressure on the QB to make long throws in tight windows and usually under duress without an outlet. It puts tremendous pressure on the WRs and TEs to make correct reads (i.e., the same read the QB makes) in order to be where the ball is going and to create separation through athleticism and time because it does not employ routes like slants, rubs, etc that are inherently designed to create space. When run well, it can be productive, but it is really, really hard to run it well.

I don't know that many other QBs would have thrown 30 INTs. JW is a true gunslinger when allowed to be, and Arians' wanted him pulling that trigger. But, I don't believe many QBs have the arm talent to make the throws he was required to make in the scheme.

I'll be interested to see if SP can utilize that arm strength while putting JW in fewer "no risk it/no biscuit" scenarios. I genuinely like JW, and hope he wins a bunch for you ... Just not when it matters for the Bucs.
 

whoami

Whodat Nation
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
468
Reaction score
383
Location
Irving, TX
Offline
Hey, Saints fans. Bucs fan here. Thanks for the butt kicking week before last. I'm hoping we get another shot at your guys the playoffs, but a lot of football to play still.

In the meantime, I'll be paying close attention to your QB situation. I'm a Bucs fan first and foremost, but I still have a lot of faith in Jameis and am anxious to see how he does given this opportunity. I posted today because the OP's analysis could not be more spot on.

He was put in a horrific situation in Tampa from day one. There was so much anticipation with Arians' "high power" offense coming in last year, but it was perhaps the worst possible fit. Couple Arians' vertical scheme and "no risk it, no biscuit"
mentality with JW's desire to please his coach and you get the high risk/high reward numbers we saw last year. It didn't help that, after every INT, Arians' kept telling JW to "keep chucking it."

Arians' scheme puts tremendous pressure on the O-line to hold blocks for a long time. It puts tremendous pressure on the QB to make long throws in tight windows and usually under duress without an outlet. It puts tremendous pressure on the WRs and TEs to make correct reads (i.e., the same read the QB makes) in order to be where the ball is going and to create separation through athleticism and time because it does not employ routes like slants, rubs, etc that are inherently designed to create space. When run well, it can be productive, but it is really, really hard to run it well.

I don't know that many other QBs would have thrown 30 INTs. JW is a true gunslinger when allowed to be, and Arians' wanted him pulling that trigger. But, I don't believe many QBs have the arm talent to make the throws he was required to make in the scheme.

I'll be interested to see if SP can utilize that arm strength while putting JW in fewer "no risk it/no biscuit" scenarios. I genuinely like JW, and hope he wins a bunch for you ... Just not when it matters for the Bucs.
Thanks and good to know!
 

Zack Lee

VIP Contributor
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
22,800
Reaction score
35,312
Location
a van down by the river
Offline
Hey, Saints fans. Bucs fan here. Thanks for the butt kicking week before last. I'm hoping we get another shot at your guys the playoffs, but a lot of football to play still.

In the meantime, I'll be paying close attention to your QB situation. I'm a Bucs fan first and foremost, but I still have a lot of faith in Jameis and am anxious to see how he does given this opportunity. I posted today because the OP's analysis could not be more spot on.

He was put in a horrific situation in Tampa from day one. There was so much anticipation with Arians' "high power" offense coming in last year, but it was perhaps the worst possible fit. Couple Arians' vertical scheme and "no risk it, no biscuit"
mentality with JW's desire to please his coach and you get the high risk/high reward numbers we saw last year. It didn't help that, after every INT, Arians' kept telling JW to "keep chucking it."

Arians' scheme puts tremendous pressure on the O-line to hold blocks for a long time. It puts tremendous pressure on the QB to make long throws in tight windows and usually under duress without an outlet. It puts tremendous pressure on the WRs and TEs to make correct reads (i.e., the same read the QB makes) in order to be where the ball is going and to create separation through athleticism and time because it does not employ routes like slants, rubs, etc that are inherently designed to create space. When run well, it can be productive, but it is really, really hard to run it well.

I don't know that many other QBs would have thrown 30 INTs. JW is a true gunslinger when allowed to be, and Arians' wanted him pulling that trigger. But, I don't believe many QBs have the arm talent to make the throws he was required to make in the scheme.

I'll be interested to see if SP can utilize that arm strength while putting JW in fewer "no risk it/no biscuit" scenarios. I genuinely like JW, and hope he wins a bunch for you ... Just not when it matters for the Bucs.
thanks for the write up, much appreciated

we all know about the interceptions but there was a lot of bright stuff too. Over the next 3 weeks Winston is looking at playing twice against the team that ranks 31st in passing yards allowed and 32nd on giving up passing TDs. All three of the next are very winnable. We know that Atlanta will bring their all but that can be said for all of our players as well.

 

jbourque

Super Forum Fanatic
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
8,194
Reaction score
7,096
Location
Frisco, TX
Offline
One big concern is Jameis can tend to hold the ball too long. Our offensive line hasn't been doing this with Drew. I expect more holding calls until we adjust. I pray no offensive lineman is hurt as a result.

Jameis has the skills, we'll see if he can translate his talent into SP's offense. I don't feel as strongly to say this is our "guy". He has so much to prove. I think we'll see a mixed bag Sunday.
 

guidomerkinsrules

W H A T E V I R
VIP Contributor
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
61,550
Reaction score
101,418
Location
by the cemeteries
Offline
Good post OP
I like your idea about the screen game in theory except that we’re playing the Falcons stupid fast LBs - they tend to nullify every screen we throw at them
 

gravynola

yeahuright
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
311
Reaction score
317
Location
by tha water
Offline
Seriously, to the OP, I really appreciate the time you put into this and the bucs fan that visited for their thoughts on the review. I can wrap my head around the criticism presented and what effect it had regarding the high turnovers. I do have a question about Arians time in Arizona though. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Carson Palmer played under him and may have had double digit interception seasons as well but maybe no quite as high as Peyton Manning or Winston. Is anyone familiar enough to comment on wether his number is higher or lower due to conditions like games missed or wether he had better blocking or other? Im very curious what may or may not have worked in Arizona under Arians as well. Thanks
 

saint_drago

I Must Break You
VIP Contributor
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
9,242
Reaction score
20,214
Location
West Monroe
Offline
The more I read about Arians the more I find myself wondering how his system has ever worked.
 

kansast

The LateNight Bar
VIP Contributor
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
3,023
Location
Sarepta, LA
Offline
trying to limit my expectations for this game. but I'm really looking forward to see how Winston does against the Falcons.
 

Blessedog

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
3,617
Reaction score
4,195
Offline
Great post! A lot of the points that OP brought up are mentioned in the video below. If you’ve got time, it’s not a bad listen. The guy who made the video referenced an interview from Carson Palmer talking about the difficulties of the Bruce Arian system where there can be 400+ play calls and that receivers basically have different route options & don’t decide on the option until the top of the route which can lead to many miscommunications during the first year in the system.

 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Similar threads



New Orleans Saints Twitter Feed

Headlines

Top Bottom