Finks and Payton? (1 Viewer)

[max]

I suggest that there have been two successful eras in Saints football: the Finks era and the Payton era. I would argue that Finks' skills acquiring talent are what made the late 80s/early 90s Saints successful for the first time. When Finks got lung cancer, within a couple of years, the team fell apart without his decision-making. Before Finks, the Saints had been around for nineteen years with zero winning seasons.

After Finks got sick, the Saints slipped back into mediocrity until Loomis hired Payton and Payton brought his offense and chose to pursue Brees. Some might say this is the Loomis era, but I think that Payton is the real differencemaker in this era. Even though Loomis is technically the boss, I think he largely leans on Payton in the acquisition of offensive personnel. Defensive player acquisition has been poor under Loomis. That said, I still think Loomis is a very good to excellent GM.

What is your opinion of crediting Finks and Payton as the difference makers in the two successful eras of Saints football?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

We won our first playoff game inbetween those 2 eras I believe
Just sayin

 

[max]

I see your point, but Haslett's success was a shooting star that burned out after a couple of seasons. Finks and Payton's teams were/are consistently successful.

 

[City Champ]

Finks is one of the best front office men in the history of sports.

He built the winningest team in the CFL of the 60s in the Calgary Stampeders. He also built the Vikings' Purple People Eaters, the 84 Cubs, and the 85 Bears.

To give you an idea how good he was, his first draft with the Saints the first 5 picks were Jim Dombrowski, Reuben Mayes, Dalton Hilliard, Pat Swilling, and Barry Word. That 86 draft rivals the 81 and 06 draft as the best in Saints History.

He also absolutely pillaged the defunct USFL. Not only did he land Mora, but also Pease, Skipper, Capers, Fangio, and Sidwell just to name a few.

Finally he landed the cream of the USFL crop. Hebert, Mills, V Johnson, Mel Gray, Buford Jordan, and the list goes on.

I don't think Payton and Finks could coexist but if they could, we would witness damn near perfect football, Parcells, Walsh, Belicheck levels easily.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

I would agree that the two most outstanding non-players in Saints history have been Payton and Finks. Finks had some failings--he allowed the Hebert negotiations to become personal (though I can imagine the difficulty of dealing with Hebert about anything), he reacted to the Hebert holdout by making the terrible Steve Walsh trade, and he never adapted to free agency. He was highly intelligent, very old school, and the favorite to become NFL commissioner until a group of new owners like Jerry Jones and Pat Bowden vetoed Finks, leading to Tagliabue's election.

Finks was totally different from Loomis. For those too young to remember Finks, think Bill Polian. Finks communicated often and well with Jim Mora, but there was never any doubt that Finks was in charge. It is very difficult to see the Vicodin and especially the bounty controversies taking place under Finks, especially the latter after the initial inquiries by the league. If they had, last March people in the organization would have fired.

And I agree with the comment above that Finks and the Payton of today, who is the team's de facto general manager, could not have co-existed.

 

[City Champ]

Finks was the boss, no damn doubt about it. You are right about how he handled the Hebert situation, but I disagree about free agency. What we had was plan B, and the deck was heavily stacked against the Saints. We got ransacked in plan B. By the time true free agency took hold, finks was a shell of his former self, fighting cancer.

 

[City Champ]

A bit more about plan B. it allowed the saints to protect 37 guys. This was a real problem because the saints had arguably the deepest roster in football. I'm not just saying that. The roster from top to bottom was absolutely stacked. We had defensive linemen that would be 3 down starters on 29 other teams, but they rotated in our scheme. We had a stable of running backs that would make Les Miles blush, and offensive linemen for days.

Both the Saints and the Bears were huge losers in plan B because of the way it was structured, not because of management.

 

[Saint Kamara]

Loomis should be given the ultimate credit. He brought in Payton. He took a huge risk on signing a not yet healed Drew Brees to a huge contract.

He has had to deal with free agency the way we know it today that Finks only dealt with the last year he ran the Saints.

Finks was incredible there is no doubt about it. But Loomis is right there next to him.

 

[City Champ]

I love Loomis, but he is no Jim Finks.

Jim Finks was going to be the commissioner of the NFL had it not been for Jerry Jones and Cancer.

 

[jojo223]

There is a commonality in all of this for Finks... He could put together great defenses, but questionable offenses... And vice versa for Payton. The best at what they both did have an eye for though.

 

[City Champ]

The old school Vikings and the 85 Bears had serious offense. The Saints running game was INSANE!

 

[ynneb]

I remember Finks being questioned by the media on the progress of negotiations with a certain defensive lineman, whose name escapes me. Finks answered, " he's strong as an Ox and twice as smart!"

 

[Randy Jones]

Finks was a good organizer. The personnel man under him who was partially responsible for the team's talent was Bill Kuharich, Director of Player Personnel. By the way, he left the Bears in 82, he can't get all the credit for the 85 Bears

 

[scedotal]

Finks was good, but Jim Mora won with a lot of Bum Philips talent. Eric Martin, Jumpy Geathers, Joel Hilgenberg, Mel Gray, Vaughan Johnson, Steve Korte, John Tice, Brad Edelman, Morten Andersen, Tony Elliott, Rickey Jackson, Frank Warren, Hoby Brenner, Jim Wilks ans Bruce Clark were all acquired by Bum Philips and all a major part of the saints success in the late 80's.

 

[No2DC]

Gotta give mueller some credit, he modernized the Offense with Haz. Loomis is the King cause he turned us into a SB champ and a SB contender every year.