Flint Michigan (1 Viewer)

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Michiganders Demand Governor

To poison all the children in an historic American city is no small feat. Even international terrorist organizations haven’t figured out yet how to do something on a magnitude like this.

But you did. Your staff and others knew that the water in the Flint River was poison — but you decided that taking over the city and “cutting costs” to “balance the budget” was more important than the people’s health (not to mention their democratic rights to elect their own leaders). So you cut off the clean, fresh glacial lake water of Lake Huron that the citizens of Flint (including myself) had been drinking for decades and, instead, made them drink water from the industrial cesspool we call the Flint River — a body of “water” where toxins from a dozen General Motors and DuPont factories have been dumped for over a hundred years. And then you decided to put a chemical in this water to “clean” it — which only ended up stripping the lead off of Flint’s aging water pipes, placing that lead in the water and sending it straight into people’s taps.
 

JimEverett

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I'm pretty sure links were posted. Here's one source:





Still looking for that $100 a day mention. They were getting "good" water from Detroit, prior.
The problem with such reporting is that there is absolutely nothing I have seen or heard that supports such an idea.

This sort of reporting indicates that the Emergency Manager came in and made a decision to switch from Detroit water to Flint River water in an effort to save a few bucks. But that is clearly not true, and has been discussed in the thread. Detroit gave Flint one year to find a new source of water after the Flint City Council (not the Emergency Manager) voted to join a newly formed water district.
 

dtc

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Want to really be terrified? Most of the service lines for natural gas running under our major cities are a century old and cast iron. And they are failing at an increasing rate.

Look out below: Danger lurks underground from aging gas pipes




:covri:

A good friend of mine runs the pumping operation for NG in this area. He says they pump probably twice as much gas into the hole as they get paid for because half or more is leaking into old crummy pipes.
 

SharonT

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The problem with such reporting is that there is absolutely nothing I have seen or heard that supports such an idea.

This sort of reporting indicates that the Emergency Manager came in and made a decision to switch from Detroit water to Flint River water in an effort to save a few bucks. But that is clearly not true, and has been discussed in the thread. Detroit gave Flint one year to find a new source of water after the Flint City Council (not the Emergency Manager) voted to join a newly formed water district.
From what I am reading, the Flint City Council's actions are almost irrelevant. The city of Flint has been under direct control of the state since 2011. The local residents and (symbolic) elected council have been going through hoops trying to appeal the decision for a while now, and had to refile the lawsuit in the state capital's county.

Pretty rich, trying to blame the people who actually live there and have to deal with (and still pay $100-200 per month for) bad water with no recourse.
 

JimEverett

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From what I am reading, the Flint City Council's actions are almost irrelevant. The city of Flint has been under direct control of the state since 2011. The local residents and (symbolic) elected council have been going through hoops trying to appeal the decision for a while now, and had to refile the lawsuit in the state capital's county.

Pretty rich, trying to blame the people who actually live there and have to deal with (and still pay $100-200 per month for) bad water with no recourse.
I do not know if the City Council's votes are irrelevant - what are you reading that says they are irrelevant? Both the Council and the mayor, all elected entities, pushed for the move to the new water district. And all were aware of Detroit's opposition and the threat that Detroit would end the contract. I understand there is the question of whether having the State Treasurer and State-appointed Emergency Manager approve any such moves is prudent or fair - but on this particular issue there does not appear to be any functional difference.
The point, though, still stands - the basis of reporting that the Emergency Manager made the decision to switch to Flint River as a source appears to be misinformed.
 

SharonT

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When I first heard "Emergency Manager" I thought it was equivalent to hurricane prep officials or such. Maybe that's what has you confused.

Wiki (sorry) but you can confirm through links. This supports everything written by the people of Flint blogging/tweeting. (No idea what is being reported on TV.)

Emergency Manager

An emergency manager, formerly emergency financial manager, is an official appointed by the Governor to take control of a local government under a financial emergency. A manager temporarily supplants the governing body, chief executive officer and/or chief administrative officer of the local government with the ability to remove any of the unit's elected officials. Managers have complete control over the local unit with the ability to reduce pay, outsource work, reorganize departments and modify employee contracts.<sup id="cite_ref-fj3_28-0" class="reference">[28]</sup>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_emergency_in_Michigan#Public_Act_4_of_2011

What's really sad and scary is the people of Michigan (rich poor black white urban farmers) voted to repeal this draconian concept...and boom, the state legislature enacted a stronger version which is not subject to voter action. Incredible.
 
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Not surprising...

Newly Leaked Emails Indicate Michigan Republicans Didn
However, question marks are already emerging from the conventional explanation for the switch &#8211; that is, to save $2 million by selling polluted water to Flint residents. Journalist Steve Neavling of the independent newspaper, Motor City Muckraker, believes that the water pipes were not switched in order to save money, thanks to the release of a new email which appears to indicate that the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) offered Snyder a deal worth $800 million over 30 years, which would have been 20% cheaper than switching to the polluted Karegnondi Water Authority.

MCM also reports that &#8220;A high-ranking DWSD official told us today that Detroit offered a 50% reduction over what Flint had been paying Detroit. In fact, documents show that DWSD made at least six proposals to Flint, saying &#8220;the KWA pipeline can only be attributed to a &#8216;political&#8217; objective that has nothing to do with the delivery &#8211; or the price &#8211; of water.&#8221; The deal was signed in 2013, and Governor Snyder refuses to release the emails from this period &#8211; refusing to offer up the paper trail of how, exactly this decision was made.
More poor governing in order to privatize government operations to cronies for profit?
 

SharonT

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LOL!!! I guess there is a concerted effort to downplay the lead poisoning, question the findings, blame Flint residents or 'the government' or just keep lobbing misdirects in hopes of creating some side squabble. And we thought we were special here. :)

Down the corporatist rabbit hole: ALEC blames #FlintWaterCrisis on retired city workers (aka union thugs)By Eclectablog on <abbr class="date time published" title="2016-01-22T18:18:24-0500">January 22, 2016</abbr> in Corporatism, Flint
The corporatist network is now circling the wagons around Michigan Governor Rick Snyder over his administration&#8217;s poisoning of Flint&#8217;s drinking water. This time it&#8217;s none other than the American Legislative Exchange Council. It&#8217;s not the Snyder administration that&#8217;s responsible, they say, it&#8217;s the retired city workers and their blood-sucking union pensions that are to blame:
Rest of article: 1/22/2016 Eclectablog.com (Out of Michigan)

Trace back the pension thing, and you'll find recent sweet deals that don't benefit the retiree or state. Thanks, corporate reformers!
 
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LOL!!! I guess there is a concerted effort to downplay the lead poisoning, question the findings, blame Flint residents or 'the government' or just keep lobbing misdirects in hopes of creating some side squabble. And we thought we were special here. :)

Rest of article: 1/22/2016 Eclectablog.com (Out of Michigan)

Trace back the pension thing, and you'll find recent sweet deals that don't benefit the retiree or state. Thanks, corporate reformers!
Let’s not forget the reason why local authorities felt the need to find a cheaper water source: Flint is broke and its desperately poor citizens can’t afford higher taxes
They are desperately poor? Maybe they need higher wages which by the way raises tax revenue without raising the tax rate.
 

JackDiesel

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Ok so let me see if I got this straight. A city of 100,000 people managed by democrats gets itself into a $48.1 million deficit (shocker). A Republican governor appoints to Emergency Manager, democrat Darnell Earley, to try and get the situation under control.



During his time as EM the city went ahead with the water switch, which according to Earley, was already made prior to his arrival.
"It did not fall to me to second guess or to invalidate the actions that were taken prior to my appointment," he said in a statement.
A switch that was also celebrated by the then Democratic mayor.

And the governor is being painted as the main culprit? Go figure.
 
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Ok so let me see if I got this straight. A city of 100,000 people managed by democrats gets itself into a $48.1 million deficit (shocker). A Republican governor appoints to Emergency Manager, democrat Darnell Earley, to try and get the situation under control.



During his time as EM the city went ahead with the water switch, which according to Earley, was already made prior to his arrival.

A switch that was also celebrated by the then Democratic mayor.

And the governor is being painted as the main culprit? Go figure.
What people are upset with and the reason the governor is at issue is that it was ignored or covered up once the problems were noticed and reported. Now you have people poisoned and paying for useless water.
 

JimEverett

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When I first heard "Emergency Manager" I thought it was equivalent to hurricane prep officials or such. Maybe that's what has you confused.

Wiki (sorry) but you can confirm through links. This supports everything written by the people of Flint blogging/tweeting. (No idea what is being reported on TV.)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_emergency_in_Michigan#Public_Act_4_of_2011

What's really sad and scary is the people of Michigan (rich poor black white urban farmers) voted to repeal this draconian concept...and boom, the state legislature enacted a stronger version which is not subject to voter action. Incredible.
The vote to switch to the regional water authority was made in March 2012. In March, 2012 the powers of the Council were restored. Judge: State violated law in appointing Flint emergency manager; Powers of mayor, city council reinstated | MLive.com
Not sure about the exact dates because I cannot find them. So maybe the COuncil had full power at the time of the vote or maybe they did not. Regardless, it seems more than mere coincidence that the Council votes and then shortly thereafter the State Treasurer approves the ordinance/request of the Council under the EM law.

But I wonder, also, why it matters. The Flint City Council voted 7-1 to switch water sources, and the mayor approved it. No doubt that the Emergency Manager and the State Treasurer had to approve it - but, as I wrote earlier - its functionally the same. Flint's elected representatives voted to switch.

More to the point that started my questioning - that was the trigger appears to have started the problem. Not, as so many seem to report, that the State wanted to save a few million dollars so they poisoned Flints residents.
 

JimEverett

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Not surprising...

Newly Leaked Emails Indicate Michigan Republicans Didn


More poor governing in order to privatize government operations to cronies for profit?
Okay - but that email clearly indicates that the choice is between Detroit water and KWA water. The latter is the choice that the FLint City Council and mayor made and entered a contract on.
The implication here is the State should have overruled the Council's vote and cancelled the contract to remain with Detroit water.
Plus, it appears from the wording that this was a 30 year commitment to Detroit water. For all the talk against the Emergency Manager law (and for good reason) not people are saying the Emergency Manager should have overturned a vote by the Council and bound Flint to a 30 year water contract?????????
 

JimEverett

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What people are upset with and the reason the governor is at issue is that it was ignored or covered up once the problems were noticed and reported. Now you have people poisoned and paying for useless water.
This might be true.
But what I have read so far seems to implicate the Michigan Environmental Agency and the EPA for giving out false information. They were telling Flint and the State that everything was fine as far as lead was concerned - right?

Again - there seems to be conflicting info out there - but that at least seems to be at least backed to some degree by actual source documents.
 

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