Football Gameplan's 2013 NFL Draft Prospect Rankings - OLBs (2 Viewers)

[CaliSaint4Life]

I think that we disagree on more than a few points concerning pass rusher.





1) I think that Galette is fully capable of being that guy as our primary pass rush threat and he is already bigger, stronger, more experienced and has better pass rush moves than most guys available in the first round of the draft like Jarvis Jones, Mingo and Jordan. I see a lot of people in favor of drafting dion jordan in order to magically bulk him up 30lbs when we already have Galette who is already of ideal weight for the position.


2) You seem beyond convinced that Ansah can not become an elite pass rusher but I'm not. Even in the 4-3 he was rarely put in position to stand up which is where he rushed best because BYU wanted him inside on 3rd and long because he was also their strongest linemen. Im not sure that you've watched enough film of him (no offence) to understand that he just wasn't allowed to rush very much from the outside.

People see only four sacks and think that the kid just must be terrible at rushing the passer standing up but he was never allowed to do it much, especially not at linebacker.

Clay Matthews only had 4 sacks his senior year too and that was playing an entire season at elephant DE.


3) I don't understand how you can praise woodley for being a well rounded player then in the very next breath push for us to draft a one-dimensional pass nickel pass rusher.


4) I think that even if we did need a pass rusher, those can be found after the first round. Sio Moore and Devin Taylor are all players that i think can be very good pass rushers for less than a first round pick.

Taylor is stronger and just as athletic as Dion Jordan and Aldon Smith and could be available for less than a 3rd rounder. James Harrison wasn't even drafted and players like Sam Acho and Justin Houston were also 3rd rounders.


It's a fair concern, granted he did not drop into coverage much but I have seen a number of plays where he has peeled off in zone and looked pretty smooth doing it. I've even seen him drop, then re-direct to make a few tackles in coverage but again. He can't be fairly judged because of how he was used at BYU.

I'll try to find some of those zone coverage clips later to post.

Yeah, I think we do disagree to some extent about our pass rushers (which is totally fine).

1) I think Galette is a good pass rusher, unquestionably the best we have. Good, but not dominant. I want a guy who teams have to gameplan for and scheme around. I don't think that after 3 or 4 years, Galette is automatically going to become that guy. With that said, nothing would make me happier than if he proved me wrong, but I'd like to see another edge guy brought in to compete - and I'd like to get him in the first. My reasoning for this: most of the best pass rushers in the NFL were drafted in the first round, so I'm going off a bit of history here. Also, we seems to have a problem with drafting talent defensively. At least if we go get a guy in the first, we'd have a high probability of not missing. As you said, maybe we just disagree, and I mean on a fundamental level. I think stopping the run is about attitude as much as it is physical skill and that we have that in-house; rushing the pass is an ability that either God gives you or he doesn't, and it's the second most important aspect to winning football behind QB play. Finally, I think have a good pass rush fits the style of football we want to play, we put a ton of points on the board and a pass rush becomes more valuable in that scenario than does run defense.

2) I think for the most part, your right that we disagree about Ansah becoming an elite pass rusher. As it pertains to how much film of his I have watch, I don't have All-22 of BYU's football games if that's what your asking, so you'd be correct in that. If your talking about youtube cutups, I've watched every last one of them I can find on youtube. I've seen more film on Ansah than I have with any other prospect. The fact that we disagree has nothing to do with how much film we watch and has everything to do with our eyes and our evaluation of what we are seeing. As I've said multiple times, paid scouts are having the same debate you and I are having. He's a hard kid to evaluate. To be honest, a lot of my comments on him are "I don't know", "I'm not sure how he will develop", "He isn't showing me this on film" instead of "He can't do it" or "He'll never be this or that". Perfect example: he wasn't impressive at all during the week of practice at Senior Week, then he blows up the game. What gives? I think its fair to question his pass rush, he doesn't have a large array of moves, he consistently loses hand battles, he has very little ability to dip his shoulder and get around the OT, and he lacks an elite first step. These are all thing that stand out on film that you look for in a pass rusher. Not to mention the level of competition he's faced compared to the other guys in first round consideration. On the flipside, he has some great tools. Great in space, closing speed, good on stunts, dominant once he create space between himself and the OT, etc. It's really almost a flip on the coin with this kid and I'm airing on the side of caution with him. With all that said, if we draft him, I'm the biggest Ansah fan and I'll be rooting for the kid just as hard as, or harder than anyone on the board. Until then, let the debate continue....

As it pertains to sacks, you know I don't care about that stat - well, not as much as most people. I just made a new thread linking a PFF article about how its an overrated stat and how people need to look past it. Heck, the best pass rusher in the NFL this year (Von Miller) didn't lead the NFL in sack and Aldon Smith had more than he did - and Smith isn't even on the same planet as Miller in terms of pass rush. Sacks are such a small part of my opinion when looking at collegegic pass rushers, especially considering how run heavy it is.

3) Woodley is playing a position where you can't be one-dimensional. Strongside OLB in a 3-4 is probably the position where you need to have the most versatility in the entire scheme. You have to play the run first, cover the TE if needed, and be able to rush the pass rusher when called upon to do it. I think Woodley is the best in the NFL at it, compared to a 3-4 weakside OLB who only has to play the run and rush the passer (they drop into coverage 1%-2% of the time in some schemes). I'd prefer a complete player if I had a choice, but if we have to draft a guy who starts his first year playing nickel then works his way into being an every down guy, I'm fine with that - it seemed to work out ok for Aldon Smith and the 49ers. Draft a guy who can get to the QB and treat him like a missle - see QB, hit QB, make it simple for him. Again, it goes back to us disagree that pass rusher is the biggest thing we need to address this offseason.

4) I agree that you can find pass rusher in later rounds, but it becomes more of a challenge and you are projecting more that later you get. Also do you really trust our FO and defensive scouting enough to land a good defensive player in late rounds? Hopefully Hicks is the start of something, but I have to see more.

Fair points about Ansah in coverage, I look forward hearing more from you on it. You said he can't be fairly judged because of how he was used at BYU, and I totally understand your premise for saying that, but college tape is 90% of your evaluation. It's hard for me to not use the tape. Now I try to look at what he does best on that tape and project him there in the NFL and places where he won't be in the NFL, I don't put as much emphasis there. But you have to trust what your eyes see.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Yeah, I think we do disagree to some extent about our pass rushers (which is totally fine).

1) I think Galette is a good pass rusher, unquestionably the best we have. Good, but not dominant. I want a guy who teams have to gameplan for and scheme around. I don't think that after 3 or 4 years, Galette is automatically going to become that guy. With that said, nothing would make me happier than if he proved me wrong, but I'd like to see another edge guy brought in to compete - and I'd like to get him in the first. My reasoning for this: most of the best pass rushers in the NFL were drafted in the first round, so I'm going off a bit of history here. Also, we seems to have a problem with drafting talent defensively. At least if we go get a guy in the first, we'd have a high probability of not missing. As you said, maybe we just disagree, and I mean on a fundamental level. I think stopping the run is about attitude as much as it is physical skill and that we have that in-house; rushing the pass is an ability that either God gives you or he doesn't, and it's the second most important aspect to winning football behind QB play. Finally, I think have a good pass rush fits the style of football we want to play, we put a ton of points on the board and a pass rush becomes more valuable in that scenario than does run defense.

I'd like your opinion.


How do you think Junior Galette compares to Jarvis Jones as a weakside rusher? Also, how do you think Devin Taylor compares to Dion Jordan and Aldon Smith. I really would like other views because when look at them side by side I see potentially eqaul or superior athletes in Galette and Taylor.

2) I think for the most part, your right that we disagree about Ansah becoming an elite pass rusher. As it pertains to how much film of his I have watch, I don't have All-22 of BYU's football games if that's what your asking, so you'd be correct in that. If your talking about youtube cutups, I've watched every last one of them I can find on youtube. I've seen more film on Ansah than I have with any other prospect. The fact that we disagree has nothing to do with how much film we watch and has everything to do with our eyes and our evaluation of what we are seeing. As I've said multiple times, paid scouts are having the same debate you and I are having. He's a hard kid to evaluate. To be honest, a lot of my comments on him are "I don't know", "I'm not sure how he will develop", "He isn't showing me this on film" instead of "He can't do it" or "He'll never be this or that". Perfect example: he wasn't impressive at all during the week of practice at Senior Week, then he blows up the game. What gives? I think its fair to question his pass rush, he doesn't have a large array of moves, he consistently loses hand battles, he has very little ability to dip his shoulder and get around the OT, and he lacks an elite first step. These are all thing that stand out on film that you look for in a pass rusher. Not to mention the level of competition he's faced compared to the other guys in first round consideration. On the flipside, he has some great tools. Great in space, closing speed, good on stunts, dominant once he create space between himself and the OT, etc. It's really almost a flip on the coin with this kid and I'm airing on the side of caution with him. With all that said, if we draft him, I'm the biggest Ansah fan and I'll be rooting for the kid just as hard as, or harder than anyone on the board. Until then, let the debate continue....

As it pertains to sacks, you know I don't care about that stat - well, not as much as most people. I just made a new thread linking a PFF article about how its an overrated stat and how people need to look past it. Heck, the best pass rusher in the NFL this year (Von Miller) didn't lead the NFL in sack and Aldon Smith had more than he did - and Smith isn't even on the same planet as Miller in terms of pass rush. Sacks are such a small part of my opinion when looking at collegegic pass rushers, especially considering how run heavy it is.

I think that we need to just agreeably disagree on the Ansah Projections, deal?
You do seem to have turned over the thought of him playing OLB more than a few times in your mind and you just haven't reached the same conclusion/same level of assurance that i have and that's perfectly fine, man.

At the end of the day we'll see how it shakes out, but i think that McShay made a good point about his versatility like Mike Vrabel. He could play a number of different positions for us and allow us scheme flexibility to switch up fronts and make more in-game adjustments.

Again, you're right, I don't see much wrong in Ansah but I've been right about players like Watt, Barwin and Reed before so i'll trust my judgement here.

It's all good bro.

3) Woodley is playing a position where you can't be one-dimensional. Strongside OLB in a 3-4 is probably the position where you need to have the most versatility in the entire scheme. You have to play the run first, cover the TE if needed, and be able to rush the pass rusher when called upon to do it. I think Woodley is the best in the NFL at it, compared to a 3-4 weakside OLB who only has to play the run and rush the passer (they drop into coverage 1%-2% of the time in some schemes). I'd prefer a complete player if I had a choice, but if we have to draft a guy who starts his first year playing nickel then works his way into being an every down guy, I'm fine with that - it seemed to work out ok for Aldon Smith and the 49ers. Draft a guy who can get to the QB and treat him like a missle - see QB, hit QB, make it simple for him. Again, it goes back to us disagree that pass rusher is the biggest thing we need to address this offseason.

You're right, that is another major disagreement that i think that we've reached an impasse on. I don't think that a dion jordan would have the same impact as Aldon Smith because i think that it's a big gamble to compare anyone in our front line to Justin Smith right now, so i think that it will be hard to project the same kind of impact for a guy who is 6-7 and only weighs 240lbs.

I also just don't see very many situational 3-4 linebackers taken in round 1.

4) I agree that you can find pass rusher in later rounds, but it becomes more of a challenge and you are projecting more that later you get. Also do you really trust our FO and defensive scouting enough to land a good defensive player in late rounds? Hopefully Hicks is the start of something, but I have to see more.

Fair points about Ansah in coverage, I look forward hearing more from you on it. You said he can't be fairly judged because of how he was used at BYU, and I totally understand your premise for saying that, but college tape is 90% of your evaluation. It's hard for me to not use the tape. Now I try to look at what he does best on that tape and project him there in the NFL and places where he won't be in the NFL, I don't put as much emphasis there. But you have to trust what your eyes see.

Honestly, I trust the F.O. even less to find a good pass-rusher in round one than i do rounds 3-7.

Galette, Broughton, Hicks are potentially our best guys in the 3-4 right now, all picked up after round 2. Jordan worked out well as a first rounder because he 's a dominant run-defender mostly.