Football Gameplan's 2013 NFL Draft Prospect Rankings - OLBs (1 Viewer)

[jes1774]

I think most of Taylor's issue came with the weight gain. When he was about 255-265 he was more explosive. He dominated all week at the East-West Shrine Game.

I think the Saints have to address that secondary. I honestly think they already have some solid pieces in place in the Front-7 for a 3-4 switch (Now some guys like Will Smith may have to take a pay cut) but I think they need playmakers in the backend.. So if I were picking at 15, I'd look for guys like Jonathan Banks CB Miss. St., David Amerson CB/FS NC State. If I wanted to go front 7, I'd go Dion Jordan or Datone Jones. Now..if I had that Harrah's itch..I'd go Tyrann Mathieu (I'd take the gamble only because I don't have a 2nd Rd pick)

Little Dayne doing work

Em, I agree with the above, but do you think the saints need an upgrade at NT over Bunkley? Personally, Im holding out hope that Ed Reed comes home to upgrade the secondary, but with the salary cap situation that may not be possible

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

Thanks CEO. Good post.

I hate when people are like "You said this so I quit watching" Good forbid someone disagrees with your opinion eh?

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Ansah is not a 3-4 OLB.

Why? because he's too heavy like Willie McGinnest was right?

Paul Kruger?

Paul Kruger, OLB for the Baltimore Ravens at NFL.com

It's an interesting debate. Of all the prospects, he's probably the hardest to project. I think he's a strongside DE in a 4-3, that's his best position and it's where I think he'll have the most success. As a 3-4 strongside OLB, he would be a great run anchor there and could get the occasional pressure but I'm not sure he belongs in coverage. I get the Kruger and McGinest comparison but Kruger is 270lbs and I think McGinest was about the same - but that's after strength and conditioning. It's said that once Ansah fills out, he'll probably add another 10 pounds which would put him around 280lbs. Too big for an OLB? You be the guess. He shouldn't lose any of his speed or quickness with the added weight and may actually gain some. He still isn't in football shape yet. Another position that is talked about a lot with him is 5-tech. At first I wasn't sure, but I'm starting to buy into the idea more and more. Once he fills out, he would have the size to play there. One reason not to play him there is that he is neutralized easily once he loses the hand battle and lacks a real counter move. He's questionable in short areas and better in space. Not exactly what you are looking for in a 5-tech, but then again, he's so undeveloped who knows how well he'll pick those skills up.

At the end of the day, if I was a 4-3 team and needed a strongside DE, I would love this guy - I think he could eventually be dominant in that role. Anywhere else, then I think you are projecting and he may not be in the best position to succeed.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

It's an interesting debate. Of all the prospects, he's probably the hardest to project. I think he's a strongside DE in a 4-3, that's his best position and it's where I think he'll have the most success. As a 3-4 strongside OLB, he would be a great run anchor there and could get the occasional pressure but I'm not sure he belongs in coverage. I get the Kruger and McGinest comparison but Kruger is 270lbs and I think McGinest was about the same - but that's after strength and conditioning. It's said that once Ansah fills out, he'll probably add another 10 pounds which would put him around 280lbs. Too big for an OLB? You be the guess. He shouldn't lose any of his speed or quickness with the added weight and may actually gain some. He still isn't in football shape yet. Another position that is talked about a lot with him is 5-tech. At first I wasn't sure, but I'm starting to buy into the idea more and more. Once he fills out, he would have the size to play there. One reason not to play him there is that he is neutralized easily once he loses the hand battle and lacks a real counter move. He's questionable in short areas and better in space. Not exactly what you are looking for in a 5-tech, but then again, he's so undeveloped who knows how well he'll pick those skills up.

At the end of the day, if I was a 4-3 team and needed a strongside DE, I would love this guy - I think he could eventually be dominant in that role. Anywhere else, then I think you are projecting and he may not be in the best position to succeed.

I'm still at a loss for where you get some of the concerns about his conditioning. The kid made 63 tackles last year and blocked 9 passes. He's already showcased his strength at the senior bowl and may have the best vertical leap of all the defensive linemen in the draft.

If that isn't peak football shape then I don't know what is.


If he measures 270 and runs a 4.5 at the combine then he'll put himself in the freak OLB category like Adalius Thomas once was.


Nowhere, have I disagreed that he can't play DE and play it well. Even before Spagnolo was removed I thought that he could play 4-3 defensive end too and like you, think that he could be a star there like Cameron Jordan. However, unlike you, I don't see why it has to be an either/or proposition with Ansah. Why exactly can he not play Strongside/LOLB? Why would he suck?

Why can't some players excel in either scheme like Terrell Suggs?

I know that you don't value run-stopping linebackers like Ahmad Brooks in the 3-4 at all but that doesn't mean that Ansah won't excel there like I think the kid can.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

I'm still at a loss for where you get some of the concerns about his conditioning. The kid made 63 tackles last year and blocked 9 passes. He's already showcased his strength at the senior bowl and may have the best vertical leap of all the defensive linemen in the draft.

If that isn't peak football shape then I don't know what is.


If he measures 270 and runs a 4.5 at the combine then he'll put himself in the freak OLB category like Adalius Thomas once was.


Nowhere, have I disagreed that he can't play DE and play it well. Even before Spagnolo was removed I thought that he could play 4-3 defensive end too and like you, think that he could be a star there like Cameron Jordan. However, unlike you, I don't see why it has to be an either/or proposition with Ansah. Why exactly can he not play Strongside/LOLB? Why would he suck?

Why can't some players excel in either scheme like Terrell Suggs?

I know that you don't value run-stopping linebackers like Ahmad Brooks in the 3-4 at all but that doesn't mean that Ansah won't excel there like I think the kid can.

Putting on a good performance and being in football shape isn't he same thing. Just because you can bat a few passes down and make a few tackles doesn't mean your in great shape. I fail to see the comparison there. He's been playing football for 2 years, after trying his hand at track and basketball (got cut twice) at BYU. That isn't to say he isn't in shape, but football shape is totally different. The fact of the matter is that the kid is a naturally gifted athlete. He's going to do things that people who are in better shape than he is can't - all on natural ability. As it pertains to everything about football, this guy has limited experience in it. My whole point was basically saying that after he gets into a strength and conditioning program in the NFL, he will end up being around 10lbs heavier than Kruger and McGinest - I made this point b/c you brought up the possibility of 60minutes thinking he was too heavy, which prompted you to bring up Kruger and McGinest. Those 10lbs mean a lot when your talking about a player who stands up.

I never accused you of saying that he can't play DE. I was simply making a point about where I think he is best suited since we were having a discussion about the player and 60minutes said that he doesn't think he can play OLB. I was just giving my take on how I think he'd project into the three positions where he's being looked at. I also don't recall saying I think he'd suck at strongside OLB in a 3-4. I simply said that I have questions about him being in coverage over there - I think that's a valid question. You misrepresent me when you say that I don't value run stopping 3-4 OLBs. I recall making a point to you in the 3-4 1-gap thread that we have to stop the run before we can begin to think about a being a great defense. To take it a step further, I even said in the post that you just quoted that I think he would fit on the strongside because one of his assets at the moment is his ability to anchor the run. I think your strongside OLB in a 3-4 HAS to be a good run player or your defense will fail. In my opinion (which in this case is just football 101) anyone playing on the strongside of a formation has to be a good run player - rather its 4-3 SAM, 4-3 DE, strongside OLB in a 3-4, etc.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Putting on a good performance and being in football shape isn't he same thing. Just because you can bat a few passes down and make a few tackles doesn't mean your in great shape. I fail to see the comparison there. He's been playing football for 2 years, after trying his hand at track and basketball (got cut twice) at BYU. That isn't to say he isn't in shape, but football shape is totally different. The fact of the matter is that the kid is a naturally gifted athlete. He's going to do things that people who are in better shape than he is can't - all on natural ability. As it pertains to everything about football, this guy has limited experience in it. My whole point was basically saying that after he gets into a strength and conditioning program in the NFL, he will end up being around 10lbs heavier than Kruger and McGinest - I made this point b/c you brought up the possibility of 60minutes thinking he was too heavy, which prompted you to bring up Kruger and McGinest. Those 10lbs mean a lot when your talking about a player who stands up.

I never accused you of saying that he can't play DE. I was simply making a point about where I think he is best suited since we were having a discussion about the player and 60minutes said that he doesn't think he can play OLB. I was just giving my take on how I think he'd project into the three positions where he's being looked at. I also don't recall saying I think he'd suck at strongside OLB in a 3-4. I simply said that I have questions about him being in coverage over there - I think that's a valid question. You misrepresent me when you say that I don't value run stopping 3-4 OLBs. I recall making a point to you in the 3-4 1-gap thread that we have to stop the run before we can begin to think about a being a great defense. To take it a step further, I even said in the post that you just quoted that I think he would fit on the strongside because one of his assets at the moment is his ability to anchor the run. I think your strongside OLB in a 3-4 HAS to be a good run player or your defense will fail. In my opinion (which in this case is just football 101) anyone playing on the strongside of a formation has to be a good run player - rather its 4-3 SAM, 4-3 DE, strongside OLB in a 3-4, etc.

Listen, I apologize if our last exchange ended on a sour note and I'm really trying to comprehend what, why and where your views are coming from but I brought up several references to Ahmad Brooks being an elite player in SF's 3-4 and I remember you dismissing the idea of acquiring an elite-runstopper in the first round. To me, that is why GW took Cameron Jordan so high and why the steelers took Lamarr woodley in round two. I just think that most in the know do place higher value on run stoppers than you did there. I've even had patriots fans explain to me in the past that Bellichic won't draft outside linebackers under 250lbs because they can't stop the run and set the edge.



Again, I apologize if i misread or misinterpreted your intent with the above comments but if your concern is with his coverage ability I just don't see OLBs in the 3-4 being as responsible for coverage as ones in the 4-3. Especially not the strongside LB whose main responsibility is containing the run.


I do think that you are going a bit overboard with the conditioning concerns.

Dick "night train" Lane (14 ints as a rookie)

Jimmy Graham & Antonio Gates only briefly played high school football before picking it up again in the NFL after a 4 season layoff. They didn't get too bulky to perform up to expectations.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

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Great breakdown.

LOL. I almost when you gave Mingo a second round grade too. I've been rating him in the 2nd-3rd round all year and i really see him as a 4-3 strongside linebacker more than anything else.

I also like your your projection of Gholston as a 5 tech which is where I have him projected too.

As far as Devin Taylor is concerned, he still looks capable of covering and he had a very nice chase down of a qb on a roll out in the shrine game that shows that he still has plenty of speed. I think that he could be a steal as a 3-4 linebacker.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Listen, I apologize if our last exchange ended on a sour note and I'm really trying to comprehend what, why and where your views are coming from but I brought up several references to Ahmad Brooks being an elite player in SF's 3-4 and I remember you dismissing the idea of acquiring an elite-runstopper in the first round. To me, that is why GW took Cameron Jordan so high and why the steelers took Lamarr woodley in round two. I just think that most in the know do place higher value on run stoppers than you did there. I've even had patriots fans explain to me in the past that Bellichic won't draft outside linebackers under 250lbs because they can't stop the run and set the edge.



Again, I apologize if i misread or misinterpreted your intent with the above comments but if your concern is with his coverage ability I just don't see OLBs in the 3-4 being as responsible for coverage as ones in the 4-3. Especially not the strongside LB whose main responsibility is containing the run.


I do think that you are going a bit overboard with the conditioning concerns.

Dick "night train" Lane (14 ints as a rookie)

Jimmy Graham & Antonio Gates only briefly played high school football before picking it up again in the NFL after a 4 season layoff. They didn't get too bulky to perform up to expectations.

It's all good man. If you go back and look at some of the threads you've started over the last couple of years I've commented on how I appreciate your post. Football discussions get intense but at the end of the day, we are all rooting for the same team. To be honest, this is the best time of the year for debate.

Maybe over the course of our last discussion we were covering so many points per post that maybe I didn't clearly make the point I was trying to make. I'll try to clairfy a few of them. I do think that Ahmad Brooks is a hell of a player. When you talk strongside OLBs in a 3-4, you think Woodley, Spencer, Kruger, and Ahmad Brooks as some of the top guys (Justin Houston also after the great year he just had). I live in the bay area, about 35 minutes from SF and I can tell you that he's an underappreciated player. I spend a ton of time trying to get Niner fans to look at the strong side of their front seven instead of the weak side. I absolutely appreciate Brooks as a player and I think he's one of the best in the NFL at what he does.

As it pertain to wanting an elite run stopper, my point is that I don't want someone who is only an elite run stopper. I think our main issue is pass rusher and we shouldn't draft a guy who is great against the run but a liability as a pass rusher (I'm not talking about any specific player when I say this). You mentioned Woodley, when he's healthy, he's as dominant of a pass rusher as he is a run player. He's has no weakness in his game and he's even good in coverage. I guess my point is that he's an elite pass rusher on top of being an elite run player (he just needs to get healthy). As for Cam Jordan, I knew he'd be a dominant run player, but I thought he had more potential as a pass rusher than most people were giving him credit for (maybe a bit of homerism on my part). I saw him absolutely dominant offensive lineman during the week of practice before the Senior Bowl in pass rushing drills and I thought he would end up being a complete player for us against the run and the pass. I think if he would have stayed in a 4-3, he would have eventually gotten there. Part of my thinking is that we have a lot of pieces in the front seven who are good run players. Hicks, Jordan, Bunkley, Hawthrone, and Lofton. I think with gap control from the outside guys, we will have a good run D. I guess my whole point is that pass rusher is our biggest weakness, even if the guy just comes in on nickel downs (and we may simply disagree on this point).

About the coverage thing: in the 3-4, your strongside OLB can be responsible for your TE, that's why I'm looking for a bit more of that skillset (coverage) over there. Your weakside OLB is the one constantly after the QB, along with your down lineman, so we have to drop that strongside OLB into coverage unless we plan to send five after the QB (blitz) on every play. My point is that the strongside OLB can't only be a run player, he has to have some coverage responsibilities (Woodley and Brooks are both REALLY good at this). It's what makes them such good player IMO, they play the run, coverage, and can rush the passer. I think Ansah can play the run and get after the QB from over there, but I don't know about his ability to drop in coverage (meaning that I haven't seen him do it enough to really say if I'm comfortable with him over there).

As for the conditioning, I can understand where you are coming from, but there are times where he comes off the snap and just stands there. My guess is that he's winded or he's waiting for the batted pass. It's a guess on my part but it's something thats on film. I used to ignore it til I read a few scouting reports mentioning that he may be still getting into football shape. I guess unless you are at BYU with him, it's hard to really tell.

 

[FootballCEO]

Little Dayne doing work

Em, I agree with the above, but do you think the saints need an upgrade at NT over Bunkley? Personally, Im holding out hope that Ed Reed comes home to upgrade the secondary, but with the salary cap situation that may not be possible

LOL!! Shhhh no one knows that nickname! Lol! Thanks Bud! Ed Reed would be a HUGE addition to the Saints secondary

Thanks CEO. Good post.

I hate when people are like "You said this so I quit watching" Good forbid someone disagrees with your opinion eh?

Lol! Thanks BRWD! Sometimes its just getting people to see the same thing from a different angle. I know one guy that has Ryan Nassib as the top overall PROSPECT in the draft regardless of position... Do I agree with him? Hell no. But I enjoyed his reasoning.

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Great breakdown.

LOL. I almost when you gave Mingo a second round grade too. I've been rating him in the 2nd-3rd round all year and i really see him as a 4-3 strongside linebacker more than anything else.

I also like your your projection of Gholston as a 5 tech which is where I have him projected too.

As far as Devin Taylor is concerned, he still looks capable of covering and he had a very nice chase down of a qb on a roll out in the shrine game that shows that he still has plenty of speed. I think that he could be a steal as a 3-4 linebacker.

Thanks Cap'n! Great Minds think alike! Yep...people are down on Montgomery when he consistently made more plays than Mingo. Also keep an eye on Malliciah Goodman out of Clemson..he's going to be a steal (5-Tech) dude is powerful with Knuckle Draggers for arms

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Thanks Cap'n! Great Minds think alike! Yep...people are down on Montgomery when he consistently made more plays than Mingo. Also keep an eye on Malliciah Goodman out of Clemson..he's going to be a steal (5-Tech) dude is powerful with Knuckle Draggers for arms

Goodman seems to have the arm length of Al Woods (36-37") but he doesn't have the 300lb frame that might be necessary to play the 5. Woods has been with the steelers since being waived by the saints as their back up DE but he also weighs 307lbs.

Al Woods, DT for the Pittsburgh Steelers at NFL.com



Some of the OLB guys that I mentioned earlier:

Armonty Bryant, impressed a lot of people at the Texas Vs the nation game. Russ Lande thinks that he has the talent to be a 3rd rounder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPxEfFmRESg


And Steven Means, the other guy not named Khalil Mack in Buffalo. Has a great build for linebacker and long arms and active hands. Seems to really know how to dip his shoulder and keep blockers off him in the run game.

Steve Means Highlight tape 2012 - YouTube

http://saintsreport.com/forums/4903201-post461.html

 

[ndcc]

Maybe in ESPN & Mass Media eyes.. I my eyes they are not. Sorry..just because its on TV doesn't make it fact. People thought I was crazy when I gave Russell Wilson a 1st Rd grade in January...

Emory,

Good day to you, bro.

It took a lot of work and forethought to compile this video. You obviously did your homework. As with all pre-draft analyses, there are never two people who see eye-to-eye 1st through 7th round.

Keep on keepin' on. It's easy to criticize, but it's another thing to get in the trenches (like you have) ...and make the calls on the NFL prospects. If there has been a prediction video more comprehensive than what you have put together here, I'd like to see it.

After the draft, I hope someone bumps this thread and looks to see how well Emory did. I dare say it will be among the best.

Again, keep up the good work. Your efforts are appreciated!

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

Ansah is as polerizing on message boards as he is among scout circles. Some are saying top 15 others saying 2nd round. I think he is a late 1st rounder. Pete Carol might take him.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[sammymvpknight]

Ansah is not a 3-4 OLB.

McGinnest was a football player with a mind for the game. Ansah is EXTREMELY raw. He is DEFINITELY best fit for 4-3 DE where he could be told "just kill the QB dummy." He would likely play 3-4 WOLB for the Saints because he would be completely clueless in pass coverage schemes. Probably is that Galette is pretty good...and they can't play the same position at the same time.

I believe that the Saints have more of a need for a SOLB...which Ansah is NOT fit for.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

As it pertain to wanting an elite run stopper, my point is that I don't want someone who is only an elite run stopper. I think our main issue is pass rusher and we shouldn't draft a guy who is great against the run but a liability as a pass rusher (I'm not talking about any specific player when I say this). You mentioned Woodley, when he's healthy, he's as dominant of a pass rusher as he is a run player. He's has no weakness in his game and he's even good in coverage. I guess my point is that he's an elite pass rusher on top of being an elite run player (he just needs to get healthy). As for Cam Jordan, I knew he'd be a dominant run player, but I thought he had more potential as a pass rusher than most people were giving him credit for (maybe a bit of homerism on my part). I saw him absolutely dominant offensive lineman during the week of practice before the Senior Bowl in pass rushing drills and I thought he would end up being a complete player for us against the run and the pass. I think if he would have stayed in a 4-3, he would have eventually gotten there. Part of my thinking is that we have a lot of pieces in the front seven who are good run players. Hicks, Jordan, Bunkley, Hawthrone, and Lofton. I think with gap control from the outside guys, we will have a good run D. I guess my whole point is that pass rusher is our biggest weakness, even if the guy just comes in on nickel downs (and we may simply disagree on this point).

I think that we disagree on more than a few points concerning pass rusher.





1) I think that Galette is fully capable of being that guy as our primary pass rush threat and he is already bigger, stronger, more experienced and has better pass rush moves than most guys available in the first round of the draft like Jarvis Jones, Mingo and Jordan. I see a lot of people in favor of drafting dion jordan in order to magically bulk him up 30lbs when we already have Galette who is already of ideal weight for the position.


2) You seem beyond convinced that Ansah can not become an elite pass rusher but I'm not. Even in the 4-3 he was rarely put in position to stand up which is where he rushed best because BYU wanted him inside on 3rd and long because he was also their strongest linemen. Im not sure that you've watched enough film of him (no offence) to understand that he just wasn't allowed to rush very much from the outside.

People see only four sacks and think that the kid just must be terrible at rushing the passer standing up but he was never allowed to do it much, especially not at linebacker.

Clay Matthews only had 4 sacks his senior year too and that was playing an entire season at elephant DE.


3) I don't understand how you can praise woodley for being a well rounded player then in the very next breath push for us to draft a one-dimensional pass nickel pass rusher.


4) I think that even if we did need a pass rusher, those can be found after the first round. Sio Moore and Devin Taylor are all players that i think can be very good pass rushers for less than a first round pick.

Taylor is stronger and just as athletic as Dion Jordan and Aldon Smith and could be available for less than a 3rd rounder. James Harrison wasn't even drafted and players like Sam Acho and Justin Houston were also 3rd rounders.

About the coverage thing: in the 3-4, your strongside OLB can be responsible for your TE, that's why I'm looking for a bit more of that skillset (coverage) over there. Your weakside OLB is the one constantly after the QB, along with your down lineman, so we have to drop that strongside OLB into coverage unless we plan to send five after the QB (blitz) on every play. My point is that the strongside OLB can't only be a run player, he has to have some coverage responsibilities (Woodley and Brooks are both REALLY good at this). It's what makes them such good player IMO, they play the run, coverage, and can rush the passer. I think Ansah can play the run and get after the QB from over there, but I don't know about his ability to drop in coverage (meaning that I haven't seen him do it enough to really say if I'm comfortable with him over there).

It's a fair concern, granted he did not drop into coverage much but I have seen a number of plays where he has peeled off in zone and looked pretty smooth doing it. I've even seen him drop, then re-direct to make a few tackles in coverage but again. He can't be fairly judged because of how he was used at BYU.

I'll try to find some of those zone coverage clips later to post.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Why do you think Taylor was so ineffective across from Clowney this year? Who would you say is the Saints best option at pick 15 in helping the new 3-4 defense? Thanks.

I know that this was directed at Emory but I just don't think that Taylor's best position is DE at the Next level.


He has great feet, is strong and powerfull at the point of attack unlike Dion Jordan, and is very comfortable in space, which are all of the ingredients of a successful 3-4 OLB at the next level.