Football Myth "must run to set up the pass" (1 Viewer)

TCEd

All-Pro
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
1,556
Reaction score
1,604
Location
Muskegon, MI
Offline
This has nothing to do with how our Saints are running & passing, just thought it was interesting.

Fact or Fiction?

I'm watching the NFLN & they have a show on the Top 10 Football Myths, they just did this one, "You must run to set up the pass", which I completely thought was fact, but about 80% of the guys they were talking to, former coaches & players, all say it's fiction & pointed out several teams, including the recent SB with the Cards being ranked 32nd in running, yet made it to the big game.

In fact, they pointed out that in most cases, it's the other way around, that passing the ball, case in point of our Saints, that opens up the run. They all agreed its good to have a balance, but that running late in a game to close, again thinking about our team, makes a greater impact than trying to use the run to open up the pass.

They pointed out that many teams who totally commit the idea of run to set up the pass, often get behind in games, at which point they have to abandon the run game.

As I said, I've always believe the statement (you must run to set up the pass) to be the most imporatant, but now I'm not so sure. I think it also depends on the team itself & what it's strengths are, but I would agree that pass can set up the run better than the former.

What do you guys think?
 
Last edited:

SaintKenKen

Delusional Optimist
VIP Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
1,478
Reaction score
1,553
Location
Natchitoches, LA
Offline
This has nothing to do with how our Saints are running & passing, just thought it was interesting.

Fact or Fiction?

I'm watching the NFLN & they have a show on the Top 10 Football Myths, they just did this one, "You must run to set up the pass", which I completely though was fact, but about 80% of the guys they were talking to, former coaches & players, all say it's fiction & pointed out several teams, including the recent SB with the Cards being ranked 32nd in running, yet made it to the big game.

In fact, they pointed out that in most cases, it's the other way around, that passing the ball, case in point of our Saints, that opens up the run. They all agreed its good to have a balance, but that running late in a game to close, again thinking about our team, makes a greater impact than trying to use the run to open up the pass.

They pointed out that many teams who totally commit the idea of run to set up the pass, often get behind in games, at which point they have to abandon the run game.

As I said, I've always believe the statement (you must run to set up the pass) to be the most imporatant, but now I'm not so sure. I think it also depends on the team itself & what it's strengths are, but I would agree that pass can set up the run better than the former.

What do you guys think?

I think we have successfully proven that, with the right scheme/talent, you can pass to set up the run. However, I think a good balance is a necessity to open up your full range of options (play action pass, misdirections, screens). While I'll agree that you have to run to set up the pass is false, it doesn't mean the opposite is true either. Its about balance and I think our success this year has proven that. Imagine if we had this amount of success running the ball last year...how many of those games could we have closed out?
 

mmule

Mikee-GA is back!
Joined
Jan 24, 2000
Messages
2,511
Reaction score
791
Age
54
Offline
The threat should be there.

AZ ran it better in the playoffs than they did in the regular season. Remember that they won the division at 9-7, almost by default, because the rest of the division was so bad. Then caught fire in the playoffs, as well as a meltdown by Carolina's QB.

Our offense has been terrific because of a dynamite QB, who has been helped out by the perceived threat of a strong run (at first Reggie, now Thomas/Bell). We all know the threat isn't always there, but if it's perceived, then it's enough to keep that extra guy out of coverage and keying on the wrong guys.
 

Le_Moyne

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
4,015
Reaction score
1,727
Offline
I don't think it completely false, you can win in many different ways but running to set up the pass have proven to be the most consistently successful way. Passing to set up the run can work and allow a team to control the ball but it doesn't give you the same "big play potential". Running before your pass open up the deep throws and by forcing the D to play at the line, it opens up the second level for long gain on the ground as well.
 

Sophandros

Very Banned
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
5,559
Reaction score
2,327
Age
46
Location
East Point, GA
Offline
In today's NFL, it's a myth. Back in the day, not so much, but the game has changed a lot, even since the 70s.

Now, you pass to secure the lead and you run to keep it.
 

Chris Cole

King Cole
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
1,041
Reaction score
364
Age
43
Location
Crowley,LA
Offline
Fact.....play action sucks the linebackers in creating a wide open middle for passing.
 

CantonLegend

Best Looking
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
9,275
Reaction score
6,971
Offline
you dont have to run to set up the pass....but it is definitly beneficial to the passing game

when you establish the run you make the defense bring in run blitzes and bring the DBs up to the box....that opens up the field for the passing game and means 1 on 1 coverages, deep zones open, and a lot more passing yardage

the same with the pass openning up the run.....you pass to spread out the field....then with less LBs on the field you can run the ball more effectively

its not a fact that you must establish one to open up the other.....but utilizing both helps and its definitly not a myth
 

BoNcHiE

Every team's Elixor
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
57,751
Reaction score
73,297
Offline
You do whatever is working.

One of the guys said it best. "Why bang your head against the wall when you can take 4 steps and go around it."

Take what the defenses are giving you. If it's the run then run. If it's the pass then pass. Stubbornly setting up the run when it's not there will just lead to you being down by 3 TD's by the time you finally have it "established."
 

jcollins9

Bring The WOOD!
Joined
Apr 12, 2002
Messages
5,854
Reaction score
3,952
Offline
I think it's all about scheme and matchups. You put your team in the best position to take advantage of what you see across the field on defense. You see a 3 man rush and 2 deep, you run the ball. You see a blitz, you screen or draw. You see 9 guys stacked on the LOS with one on one coverage on the ends, you look to throw, preferably downfield. You want to put pressure on the defense, make them doubt their scheme, and spend that extra second thinking about what they are trying to do.

These are things we as a team to extremely well.
 

NPs6724

Two Dat, Here We Come!
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Messages
20,978
Reaction score
4,111
Age
37
Location
Mobile, AL
Offline
You can't do well consistently relying solely on one form of offense, whether it be passing or running. If you can't pass, you can't come back from large deficits or compete in shootouts. If you can't run, you have a hard time closing out games. If your offense is a one-trick pony, you will have problems.
 

bobad

Son of Adam
VIP Contributor
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
25,245
Reaction score
18,058
Location
Saints Country
Offline
In today's NFL, it's a myth. Back in the day, not so much, but the game has changed a lot, even since the 70s.

Now, you pass to secure the lead and you run to keep it.


True,,,

What it boils down to is you need to have a serious run and a serious
pass threat to force defenses to play you honestly. Not to say
that you need a dynamite running game, just good enough to keep
defenses from pinning their ears back on 2nd and 3rd down and medium yardage.
 

LSSpam

Practice Squad
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Messages
28,419
Reaction score
8,141
Age
39
Location
Oxford, MS
Offline
Since we clearly set the run up with our passing game and have the top offense in the NFL, obviously it's a myth.
 

StJacques

All-Pro
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
1,136
Reaction score
416
Location
Lafayette, La.
Offline
The maxim "You must run to set up the pass" clearly is a myth, which I think was repeated time and again by obstinate coaches who did not feel comfortable learning the complexities of modern passing offenses.

And I think Mike Ditka falls into the above category.
 

Wheelo

I <3 Saints
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
3,889
Reaction score
4,008
Location
Mandeville
Offline
The Gulf Coast offense proves this to be myth. This isn't the NFL ten years ago...
 

LSSpam

Practice Squad
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Messages
28,419
Reaction score
8,141
Age
39
Location
Oxford, MS
Offline
The Gulf Coast offense proves this to be myth. This isn't the NFL ten years ago...

More like 35 years ago.

"The run sets up the pass" is an adage from the days of most of your pass production coming from a play-action into a 7-step drop where your quarterback looks down the field at vertical routes. Bill Walsh obsoleted that as the dominate passing philosophy in the NFL.

Philosophically, offense in the NFL is about increasing "frontage" (to get military on you), that is to say, the volume of space a given number of men have to cover. i.e. "Spreading the field out".

One way of doing that is, in fact, through the play-action pass and a strong vertical passing game. It pushes defensive backs away from the LOS and therefore increases.

Spread offensive elements, etc simply do the same concept in a different manner. They spread the field horizontally. By putting 3 or 4 receivers near the LOS and out wide you draw the defense taut at the LOS, but spread out. There are many other concepts which can accomplish the same thing, pitch plays, swing passes, etc.

When you introduce what we would think of (somewhat incorrectly, but we'll use the term anyways) as "West Coast" style routes, shallow routes timed with the QB dropback, and combine that with a spread formation, you get vertical depth too. If Devery Henderson beats his man badly on a quick slant, he can go the distance, requiring safety depth (think the 99/00 Rams with Hakim, Bruce, and Holt).

Of course the defense can flip the script some. One of the problems with spread formations is it allows the defense to proactively gain a "frontage advantage" directly in front of the quarterback through blitzs. It exposes them deep and on the edges, but they can seriously disrupt the quarterback.

Offenses can respond however with things like misdirection, screens, short drop backs, shotgun formations, etc, etc

Well the whole point of all of this is that football is way to complex and evolved to be reduced to such an uninformative and simplistic adage like "the run sets up the pass". We're way beyond that point.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

 

New Orleans Saints Twitter Feed

 

Headlines

Top Bottom