Football Myth "must run to set up the pass" (1 Viewer)

[LSSpam]

The Gulf Coast offense proves this to be myth. This isn't the NFL ten years ago...

More like 35 years ago.

"The run sets up the pass" is an adage from the days of most of your pass production coming from a play-action into a 7-step drop where your quarterback looks down the field at vertical routes. Bill Walsh obsoleted that as the dominate passing philosophy in the NFL.

Philosophically, offense in the NFL is about increasing "frontage" (to get military on you), that is to say, the volume of space a given number of men have to cover. i.e. "Spreading the field out".

One way of doing that is, in fact, through the play-action pass and a strong vertical passing game. It pushes defensive backs away from the LOS and therefore increases.

Spread offensive elements, etc simply do the same concept in a different manner. They spread the field horizontally. By putting 3 or 4 receivers near the LOS and out wide you draw the defense taut at the LOS, but spread out. There are many other concepts which can accomplish the same thing, pitch plays, swing passes, etc.

When you introduce what we would think of (somewhat incorrectly, but we'll use the term anyways) as "West Coast" style routes, shallow routes timed with the QB dropback, and combine that with a spread formation, you get vertical depth too. If Devery Henderson beats his man badly on a quick slant, he can go the distance, requiring safety depth (think the 99/00 Rams with Hakim, Bruce, and Holt).

Of course the defense can flip the script some. One of the problems with spread formations is it allows the defense to proactively gain a "frontage advantage" directly in front of the quarterback through blitzs. It exposes them deep and on the edges, but they can seriously disrupt the quarterback.

Offenses can respond however with things like misdirection, screens, short drop backs, shotgun formations, etc, etc

Well the whole point of all of this is that football is way to complex and evolved to be reduced to such an uninformative and simplistic adage like "the run sets up the pass". We're way beyond that point.

 

[Wheelo]

You took my one sentence into a 3 paragraphed post, nice!

 

[Broad St. Saint]

More like 35 years ago.

"The run sets up the pass" is an adage from the days of most of your pass production coming from a play-action into a 7-step drop where your quarterback looks down the field at vertical routes. Bill Walsh obsoleted that as the dominate passing philosophy in the NFL.

Bingo! No one who saw Joe Montana's 49ers in their heyday could believe that it only works one way (run sets up pass). For them, the pass set up the run all the time. Think about all those no-drop quick LOS outs to Rice and Taylor split wide, meant to force the CBs out wider and up closer to the LOS, and bring the safeties out wider as well. That created room for Roger Craig.

Of course, a lot depends on your personnel. Not everybody has a Montana (or a Brees) or a Rice and Taylor.

 

[St. PJ]

In today's NFL, it's a myth. Back in the day, not so much, but the game has changed a lot, even since the 70s.

Now, you pass to secure the lead and you run to keep it.

That says it all very concisely. Even Bill Cohwer agrees the game has changed.

That said, neither running it like old school Pittsburg, or throwing it like last years Saints are good enough right now. You need to be able to do both. Bill Walsh is the father of passing to set up the run. But when playing a defense (like the Jets or Ravens) who have speed and talent on the front 7 (LB'rs and Dline), the short, high percentage passing game is shut down pretty easily, and a qb doesn't have enough time to consistantly throw medium to long route pass plays. So even today, when playind those kinds of defenses, you need to run to set up the pass, as well as screen and misdirection.

All the rule changes in recent years have benefited specifically the passing game. All the teams going to 3 and 4 wide have also changed the safety position as well. Teams play in Nickle with a 3rd corner as opposed to 2 corners and 2 safeties more than 50% of the time. Which if you can keep a defense in that formation, it opens up the run because you have less men in the box. It also helps a team with the lead preserve the lead to build a defense with 3 good corners as opposed to 3 good lb's or 2 good safeties (in terms of where you spend your money) because on average, that third corner will see the field more.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Colts want 12-4 last year with the 31th running attack in the NFL and this year they are 29th after 4 games.

Another thing is no matter how well the Saints run the ball, most teams will stay worry about stopping the pass when they play the Saints. So don't look for to many 8 man fronts this year since teams rather let the Saints run the ball give 5 yards at time, since longer the drive the better chance for a mistake to happen on offence.

Most teams who play the Saints this year want to make it 8-9 possieson game where as its better for the Saints to make it a 12-13 drives a game.

 

[St. PJ]

The Colts want 12-4 last year with the 31th running attack in the NFL and this year they are 29th after 4 games.

Another thing is no matter how well the Saints run the ball, most teams will stay worry about stopping the pass when they play the Saints. So don't look for to many 8 man fronts this year since teams rather let the Saints run the ball give 5 yards at time, since longer the drive the better chance for a mistake to happen on offence.

Most teams who play the Saints this year want to make it 8-9 possieson game where as its better for the Saints to make it a 12-13 drives a game.

Thats true, but you have to love that when teams sell out to stop the pass, we aren't married to it and can just as easily run the ball. The ability to do both makes us complete and now Drew doesn't have to do it all. I see us passing against teams we can do anyting against, and switching to the run once a sizeable lead is established. And vs teams who take away on or the other, we do what works. Its just great to have the ability to finally do both, because now it turns into pick you poison.

 

[LafourcheSaint]

I'm sure the late Bill Walsh would say myth.

 

[redlandssaintsson]

Both. Some teams, ie the Steelers of old, the current Jags and Titans, have to run to set up the pass. They don't have the all around skill to just do what they please out there on the field. Then there's the pass to set up the run group, ie current Pats, current Steelers, and some of those teams with lesser RBs. Then there are the few teams, like the Saints, Colts, Vikings, that you know exactly what they're going to do. Saints and Colts pass, Vikings run, but in no way does doing one help/hurt the other. The Saints have shown that they don't need a passing game to beat you. Addai can rip off a 100 yard game if he HAS to, and Favre hasn't had to put up 350 a game because we all know AP can run. So I think there's truth and myth to this. A team like Miami can run all day if they want, it isn't going to make Pennington/Hene a better QB.

 

[Innotech]

if your QB is as accurate as Brees, you dont have to set up anything

 

[Ltr0x]

if your QB is as accurate as Brees, you dont have to set up anything

thats why we almost lost the last two games

man

if we had a real running game, we would be able to convert 3-1, 4-1

without mike bell the team doesnt trust reggie and thomas to do the job, or they dont trust themselves

 

[CantonLegend]

thats why we almost lost the last two games

man

if we had a real running game, we would be able to convert 3-1, 4-1

without mike bell the team doesnt trust reggie and thomas to do the job, or they dont trust themselves

we almost lost the last 2 games?

 

[NPs6724]

thats why we almost lost the last two games

How do you almost lose 2 games that you win by 20 and 14?