Free Agent Signings... (1 Viewer)

[Infoman]

I would rather the Saints go after Panthers WR Drew Carter over Bryant Johnson. They're both just about the same size, only Carter is faster and would come cheaper IMO. Don't get me wrong, I think Johnson is good... I'd just rather Carter.

I rarely disagree with you DWD... but I have to here. Carter has done nothing in Carolina that would warrant anything more than possibly a place on our practice squad... Whereas Johnson would most likely be a solid #2 WR here. If you are talking strictly about cost... an argument could be made to bring in Cater rather than Johnson... but from a talent and production standpoint... Johnson >>>>> Carter.

IMO, Carter would not see the field 90% of the time, and would be a waste of time to even bring in.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

Shanle's deal was cap friendly, even David's $16mil deal was not absurd because based on his play last season he probably won't see all of that. Now the guys we may have to sign this offseason will command BIG deals. Last offseason's conservative strategy was probably based on the fact that the FO knew more cap $$$ would be available this offseason.

Actually, if I recall, David's deal was somewhat front loaded to prevent the Colts from matching.

 

[Slim K]

I would rather the Saints go after Panthers WR Drew Carter over Bryant Johnson. They're both just about the same size, only Carter is faster and would come cheaper IMO. Don't get me wrong, I think Johnson is good... I'd just rather Carter.

Drew Carter could never even beat out Keary Colbert, whereas Bryant Johnson was overshadowed by two of the best receivers in the NFL today. Drew may have the better intangibles, but his skills are nowhere near Bryant's level.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

I like that someone else brought up Johnson's name.... I brought his name up about a month ago and a lot of people said "He's just another Colston-Type plyer".... and all I keep saying is... "what the hell is wrong with having another Colston-Type player"?

He would be an amazing pickup for our offense... I seriously hope we make him a real offer durring FA.

The problem is you wind up with a lot of the same type recievers, which makes it easy for opposing teams to match up easier. Go ask Jax. They had all tall, big, average speed Wideouts and they could not get open because they are not quick enough.

You do not want your #1 and #2 recievers being both Tall and not quick.

Ideally, we need someone in the Bernard Berrian/Chad Johnson mold...............this is why it's very important Meachem comes through this year.

 

[Infoman]

Actually, if I recall, David's deal was somewhat front loaded to prevent the Colts from matching.

That's correct. His deal was front loaded so that the Colts could not match due to their cap situation last year. Which, by the way, makes it all the more sickening that the Saints paid him all that money up front last year for the way he played.

 

[Infoman]

The problem is you wind up with a lot of the same type recievers, which makes it easy for opposing teams to match up easier. Go ask Jax. They had all tall, big, average speed Wideouts and they could not get open because they are not quick enough.

You do not want your #1 and #2 recievers being both Tall and not quick.

Ideally, we need someone in the Bernard Berrian/Chad Johnson mold...............this is why it's very important Meachem comes through this year.

Not buying. You can never have enough psychical WRs that can go after the ball. Match ups or not... Johnson would be a huge asset to any team. We have a guy that is fast and quick that catches the ball as much as any WR (Reggie)... We have bona fide #1 WR in Colston that can play the outside or inside... we have a red-shirt rookie that can stretch the field (or so we are told) in Meach. What we need is a guy that can produce, catch more balls than he drops, and can play multiple WR positions. Johnson can do that... not to mention... if (god forbid) Colston gets hurt... Johnson would be a very nice replacement.

 

[Consigliere]

That's correct. His deal was front loaded so that the Colts could not match due to their cap situation last year. Which, by the way, makes it all the more sickening that the Saints paid him all that money up front last year for the way he played.

Doesn't that make it more cap-friendly to cut him now, as there's less accelleration?

 

[Infoman]

Doesn't that make it more cap-friendly to cut him now, as there's less accelleration?

I don't know about that. I would have cut him about mid-season last year. Cap be damned. However, I do not see the Saints cutting him... at least not this year.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Doesn't that make it more cap-friendly to cut him now, as there's less accelleration?

We'd be stupid to cut him. We've already paid for him, his cap numbers now are minimal and that would leave us with a hurt MM, and Craft/Thomas, both of which are just as bad and a rookie 3rd rounder.

David is young, a good athlete, and actually covers well when he doesn't screw up off the line (which he does alot as we saw). We have to take the chance that he comes around this year, if it is only has a nickelback. We've made the investment. Theres no positive to cutting him now.

 

[DownWithDisease]

I rarely disagree with you DWD... but I have to here. Carter has done nothing in Carolina that would warrant anything more than possibly a place on our practice squad... Whereas Johnson would most likely be a solid #2 WR here. If you are talking strictly about cost... an argument could be made to bring in Cater rather than Johnson... but from a talent and production standpoint... Johnson >>>>> Carter.

IMO, Carter would not see the field 90% of the time, and would be a waste of time to even bring in.

I see what you're saying, but from what I've seen of Carter, I really think he is just now entering his prime. Carter took over as the starter opposite Steve Smith for the 2nd half of last season, and just seems to be on the verge to me, IMO.

I realize that Bryant Johnson was stuck behind Bolden and Fitzy, but then again, why did the Cards feel like they had to draft Fitzy after they had grabbed BJ in the 1st round very recently before that? Also, prior to this season (which was a total disaster at the QB position for Carolina) Carter was stuck behind Steve Smith and Keyshawn Johnson... and maybe even Muhsin Muhammed for a year... All very good WRs.

I look at Carter as a potential replacement for Devery Henderson in our offense... a deep threat, only with much better hands. I think I'm in the minority of fans here who think that Robert Meachem is going to grab that #2 WR spot when he gets 100% healthy.

Like I said in my first response to the OP... I wouldn't be mad if we got Johnson (even though he has had trouble with the dropsies)... I would just rather Carter.

 

[Infoman]

I see what you're saying, but from what I've seen of Carter, I really think he is just now entering his prime. Carter took over as the starter opposite Steve Smith for the 2nd half of last season, and just seems to be on the verge to me, IMO.

I realize that Bryant Johnson was stuck behind Bolden and Fitzy, but then again, why did the Cards feel like they had to draft Fitzy after they had grabbed BJ in the 1st round very recently before that? Also, prior to this season (which was a total disaster at the QB position for Carolina) Carter was stuck behind Steve Smith and Keyshawn Johnson... and maybe even Muhsin Muhammed for a year... All very good WRs.

I look at Carter as a potential replacement for Devery Henderson in our offense... a deep threat, only with much better hands. I think I'm in the minority of fans here who think that Robert Meachem is going to grab that #2 WR spot when he gets 100% healthy.

Like I said in my first response to the OP... I wouldn't be mad if we got Johnson (even though he has had trouble with the dropsies)... I would just rather Carter.

I get what you're saying about Carter, and I agree to an extent. I guess I am just tired of looking for that "deep threat" every year that some people think we need to complement our offense. Why? If anything we should be looking for a bunch of possession guys that can get open 10-12 yards down field and beat press coverage. We don't need to go deep but maybe a couple of times a game to keep a defense honest. We can't afford to score quickly with the current state of our defense. We need to sustain as many long possession-type / time consuming drives as possible using the short to intermediate passing game and running game as possible to keep our sorry defense on the sideline. Those workout warrior super fast guys that can't catch a cold on the South Pole are a dime-a-dozen... the big guys that can beat the press, run good routes, break tackles, and move the chains consistently are much more rare and valuable IMO.

 

[DownWithDisease]

...the big guys that can beat the press, run good routes, break tackles, and move the chains consistently are much more rare and valuable IMO.

Do you feel that Bryant Johnson is that type of player? I agree that guys like you described above are both rare and valuable, but I'm not so sure Bryant Johnson would give you that more than Carter.

...not that either guy really fits that mold.

 

[Infoman]

Do you feel that Bryant Johnson is that type of player? I agree that guys like you described above are both rare and valuable, but I'm so sure Bryant Johnson would give you that more than Carter.

...not that either guy really fits that mold.

Since 2003 Johnson has averaged about 500 yards a season, 12.7 YPC, and 28 1st downs per season while only missing 3 games in 5 seasons. While playing behind (agrueably) the most talented WR tendem in the NFL.

Since 2005 (giving him a pass for 2004, he did not play) Carter has averaged about 325 yards a season, 13.8 YPC (wow a yard more), and 15 1st downs per season while missing 31 games in 4 seasons While playing on a team that's only playmaker/offensive threat is Steve Smith.

Stats aside... I do think Johnson can be that type of player given the oppertunity (he's produced well in a limited role). On the other hand, I have seen little to nothing that would make the think that Cater will be anything more than a career bench warmer on a NFL roster, or possibly AFL/CFL player sooner or later.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

Not buying. You can never have enough psychical WRs that can go after the ball. Match ups or not... Johnson would be a huge asset to any team. We have a guy that is fast and quick that catches the ball as much as any WR (Reggie)... We have bona fide #1 WR in Colston that can play the outside or inside... we have a red-shirt rookie that can stretch the field (or so we are told) in Meach. What we need is a guy that can produce, catch more balls than he drops, and can play multiple WR positions. Johnson can do that... not to mention... if (god forbid) Colston gets hurt... Johnson would be a very nice replacement.

I don't disagree with the bolded print, but I don't like Johnson as our #2. Berrian has just as good of hands as Bryant and would give us Devery Henderson quickness and speed with very good, reliable hands.

IMO, Bryant would make a great back-up to Colston, but not as a starter opposite Colston! With 2 slow WR's starting, Safeties could ignore the deep ball and send a safety up the the LOS every play, making Reggie or whichever RB is in the game less effective.

As for Reggie, when does Reggie go on patterns downfield? I know I would like to see it happen, but until Reggie goes on routes consistently longer than 5 yards, he is running more routes of a TE than he is a WR.

 

[Infoman]

I don't disagree with the bolded print, but I don't like Johnson as our #2. Berrian has just as good of hands as Bryant and would give us Devery Henderson quickness and speed with very good, reliable hands.

IMO, Bryant would make a great back-up to Colston, but not as a starter opposite Colston! With 2 slow WR's starting, Safeties could ignore the deep ball and send a safety up the the LOS every play, making Reggie or whichever RB is in the game less effective.

As for Reggie, when does Reggie go on patterns downfield? I know I would like to see it happen, but until Reggie goes on routes consistently longer than 5 yards, he is running more routes of a TE than he is a WR.

Speed is realitive. There is track speed and there is game speed. People say Colston is slow... I'm sorry but... he doesn't look slow... nor does this precieved slowness stop him from producing... same goes for Johnson IMO.

The notion that it's somehow necessary that we go out and get some fast guy oppsoite Colston is bogus IMO. Give me a big guy that Drew can find... that can catch the ball... and get open against the press when the blitz is on... and you can keep your fast guys.

Everyone in the NFL that plays WR is fast (or fast enough)... otherwise they would not be there.

And my point with Reggie was not so much to paint him as a downfield WR... but to point out that we have speed and quickness in our offense already... and he is going to see a lot of passes thrown his way. That's all.

You guys can have all of the Stallworth's, Berrian's, Henderson's, etc of the world... I'll take the big guys that can catch and are maybe a half step slower all day.

EDIT: Another thing no one seems to mention when discussing this topic... is WR blocking at the second level. We were terrible at this last year. Our outside run and screen game on offense suffered big time because of guys like Patten, Henderson, and Moore not getting good blocks on CBs that would come up and take out our RBs before they could get to the 2nd level. Which, by the way, is where Reggie becomes a huge threat.