Saints Fumbles! (2 Viewers)

tbone

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Taysom Hill has gotten a lot of flack for the fumbles, but James Winston has had his fair share during his career.

CAREER FUMBLES/CARRIES

TH: 10/151 (6.7%)

JW: 50/256 (20%)

In fairness, I would guess that the majority of JW's fumbles have been from the pocket and not from rushing attempts. A more fair statistic is rushing attempts + passing attempts:

JW: 1570 + 256 = 1826 (2.7% fumble rate)

TH: 151 + 121 = 272 (3.7% fumble rate)

Numbers could be skewed due to sample size but the reality is that Hill's fumble problems are overblown. If it continues, that would be cause for concern but at this point I don't think it's an issue.
 
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I don't think you make an argument for Jameis against Taysom's fumbling issue last year or vice versa. They both have turnover problems. One has a worse turnover rate than the other but with Jameis's 5 year sample and Taysom's 4 game sample, I think you would just list it as an unacceptable negative for both. If either continues those trends they wouldn't stay a starter.
 

duckjr78

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Interesting that Drew Brees and Brady have the best fumble rates in history.


Kurt Warner had almost as many fumbles in nearly 200 less games.


Pretty sure this includes sack/strip fumbles though which isn't entirely on the qb and has a lot to do with the quality of the team as well.

Edit: Rodgers 81 fumbles in 197 games.
I have been absolutely shocked at some of the blindside hits that Drew has taken and still held onto the ball. I don’t know if it qualifies as a “skill,” but it certainly is a small part of what makes him so great.
 
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Ehhhhh.....I could let it slide for a guy that has his abilities. Dude is a beast. That’s just my on personal feelings
Until it costs you a game! Ppl tend to forget the fumble against the failcants, that could've been an easy scoop and score to beat the SAINTS!!!
 

SweetT

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Until it costs you a game! Ppl tend to forget the fumble against the failcants, that could've been an easy scoop and score to beat the SAINTS!!!
TH7 accounted for 13 TDs. Passing, rushing, and receiving. The guy fills in a handful of positions. Whether you like it or not, he adds great value. It’s not like he’s a one trick pony that has a fumbling issue. Those guys value diminishes when they accrue fumbling issues. Besides, I’m sure he can correct it.
 
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TH7 accounted for 13 TDs. Passing, rushing, and receiving. The guy fills in a handful of positions. Whether you like it or not, he adds great value. It’s not like he’s a one trick pony that has a fumbling issue. Those guys value diminishes when they accrue fumbling issues. Besides, I’m sure he can correct it.
Does his value diminish with his "accrue fumbling issues", or it doesn't it?! Who said he wasn't valuable or even good??? WHO??? You just let it be known that you're a Taysom apologist, that's all. I said nothing negative; just FACTS!!! How are you so sure he can correct it?! HOW???
 

No2DC

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Mac Jones only has two fumbles in his career (1 lost).

Just saying.

Winston had 6 fumbles at FSU in 2013 and 7 at FSU in 2014.
As our resident Mac Jones advocate, how do you respond to the criticism that he's one of the least mobile QBs in this year's draft? I just heard the comment this morning, so unless he goes to a playoff contender like us he'll have problems running from elite NFL D lineman.
 

Infoman

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Really wish we'd wait to have these discussions...

A.) If Winston is actually on the team this year.
B.) If Coach Payton actually announces there will be a QB competition.
 
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Taker597

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As our resident Mac Jones advocate, how do you respond to the criticism that he's one of the least mobile QBs in this year's draft? I just heard the comment this morning, so unless he goes to a playoff contender like us he'll have problems running from elite NFL D lineman.
He doesn't really care and seems to be stuck on relic of the past. I been talking it about since I started scouting him. I see him as a very unlikely pick.

He's fallen in love with mostly his accuracy and paper stats. I like stats, but film is more of my thing. Even under perfect conditions, I don't see it viable for any team to really reimagine Jones supporting cast or his elite Oline in the NFL. NFL pressure is a whole nother beast. If he can stays healthy while a team builds him an adequate Oline. He may get a chance.

Pocket athleticism is so crucial nowadays because Oline play is probably the worst it ever been league wide. Itwas a luxury skill about ten years ago that is a must need nowadays. There is no stonewall offensive line anymore. You can't really build one either.
 

SweetT

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Does his value diminish with his "accrue fumbling issues", or it doesn't it?! Who said he wasn't valuable or even good??? WHO??? You just let it be known that you're a Taysom apologist, that's all. I said nothing negative; just FACTS!!! How are you so sure he can correct it?! HOW???
Everyone on this board knows I’m a hardcore TH7 fan. It’s not a new occurrence. I just know how to see value in totality, which he is valuable. So much to the extent where SP found ways to get him on the field, in whatever capacity. As for him “correcting” his fumbling issue....TH7 is the kind of guy that puts in the work to better his game.
Fumbles happens in games all of the time. Heck, there was a time when Drew was throwing pick 6s. Who cares? Turnovers happen.
 

NOLAJM504

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Taysom will never come close to Winston because he already showed the world he is not a starting QB. He will either be a backup or jack of all trades until he retires. His small sample size was enough to show all teams he is better at other things not QB. Not one team offered him a starting QB salary and even we went a little more than he should have got. For his role as the jack of all trades, he earned that money, but as a starting QB, we all know he way underperformed in that role and turnovers were extremely high.
You are correct in that he didn't take care of the football, at least from the perspective of fumbles. And, yes.. that aspect is extremely concerning to the extent that its possible (or not possible, more specifically) to improve on this with offseason work and ball handling/carrying technique.

BUT...

"Already showed the world he is not a starting QB" is a good example of the broad-stroke criticism I referred to when I said what I said below (in reference to those who are blatantly dismissive of what Taysom Hill is now vs. what he could become) :

They (usually) don't take into account that Taysom will likely improve as a pocket passer, in time. Instead, it seems like some (not all, but a lot) were just waiting for his first loss -- so that they could pile on with the criticism and hope that everyone else accepts it as gospel that he's not cut out to be a QB. And while I'm not sold that he *is* cut out to be a QB, I think we saw enough at times (ie. the Falcons game) to consider developing his skillset even more. Going back to college, and even beyond that... he hasn't taken many snaps where he was allowed or expected to be a pocket passer, primarily -- and the Falcons game (as well as a handful of throws he made in every game except the one vs. the Broncos -- which we should all agree needs to not count in his pocket passing evaluation) suggests that it might be worth it to invest time in his improvement. He threw 3 TD passes, and at least two of them per my recollection were not exactly easy throws to make.
Simply put, a three game sample size is not enough to dismiss or qualify someone as a legitimate starting QB.

See: Ryan Fitzpatrick during any of his numerous "Fitzmagic" flare-ups as an example of why a three game hot streak should not used as a means to qualify a QB.

See: Josh Allen's first full three starts as a QB in the NFL (2 TD 4 INT), barely over 50% completion percentage (in fact, he started all but one game and he was just over 50% on the *entire season.

Meanwhile, Taysom hill goes 88 for 121 (72.7%) for 928, 8 total TDs, 2 INTs and 2 FMBL.. with the passing stats essentially being from three games only.

And we've seen enough to say he's not starting material? How could anyone dismiss anyone but the absolute worst of QBs after three games, much less someone who:

(a) Completed over 70% of his passes (most of which came during the second game vs ATL with a high degree of difficulty on a couple of those throws) and went 3-1 over his first four game stretch.

(b) Threw 3 TDs in one game, and the next game was knee-capped with a run-heavy, covid-friendly game plan and therefore unable to build off of the momentum of his excellent previous game thanks to the run-heavy covid gameplan vs. The Broncos.

(c) is more than willing to work as hard as needed and will do anything asked of him

Again, I'm not saying he is eventually going to end up a starting QB, or that I feel he is starting material. I just don't know how someone can say he's not, given everything I just went over.
 

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