Garrapolo to Saints-OP speculation (Mod edit) (1 Viewer)

It was a complementary relationship, but the HOF player was significantly more important to the equation than the coach, as is always the case. Brees won a state title in high school. He pulled a crappy Purdue program out of the ashes, setting two NCAA records, 13 Big Ten Conference records and 19 school records. He was a two-time Heisman Trophy finalist, two-time Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year and two-time first team all-conference selection. He won the 2000 Maxwell Award as the nation's outstanding player. He went to the Pro Bowl in a run-heavy vanilla Marty Schottenheimer offense, for forks' sake. He kicked arse wherever he played, and usually after going to a program/franchise with a poor track record of recent success. Payton's track record pre-Brees absolutely pales in comparison.

I'll repeat: it's a player-driven league. Always has been, always will be. Payton is a great coach and I am thrilled to have him, but his best career accomplishments have come courtesy of a 1st ballot HOF QB under center, period. I understand that our fan base wants to prop up the horse we're still riding, but the reality is that we'll struggle offensively relative to our success under Brees unless and until we find someone near his caliber. Even before the wheels fell off the wagon this year from a personnel perspective, that much was obvious, even with a #1 overall pick taking the snaps. Things would have been better with MT for sure, but it wouldn't have propelled us from the back of the pack to the upper echelon where we were accustomed to being with Brees at QB.

Save this post and we'll revisit in a couple of years.
I understand all his accomplishments in high school and college football. But if Drew Brees was so great coming out of college than why wasn't he picked in #1 in the 2001 draft over Michael Vick? Brees had a better career... Nobody in the NFL at that time saw Drew as the next HOF QB.

And between 2001-2003, Drew's record was 10 Wins and 17 Losses with 29 Touchdowns and 31 Interceptions. Also, in 2003 Brees was benched for Doug Flutie. The Chargers drafted Phillip Rivers in 2004 to replace Brees because they didn't see him as their franchise QB.

It sounds like you are making seem like Payton's success with the Saints was because of Drew. If that was the case then why Teddy Bridgewater and Taysom Hill was successful in the saints offense? And why Bridgewater was so bad when he left?
 
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If Jameis Winston played that same exact game for us everyone would be calling for Taysom to start.
But...but...he's a winner! (when he's throwing to a bunch of All-Pros and has a Hall of Fame LT protecting his blindside)

I'm just gonna say it, if this stat line excites you, let me know so I can add you to my ignore list because your opinion isn't founded on anything logical.

Jimmy Garoppolo16/2517201

OMG HE'S SO AMAZING

LOOK HOW HANDSOME HE WAS WHEN HE THREW THIS TERRIBLE INTERCEPTION

 
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I understand all his accomplishments in high school and college football. But if Drew Brees was so great coming out of college than why wasn't he picked in #1 in the 2001 draft over Michael Vick? Brees had a better career... Nobody in the NFL at that time saw Drew as the next HOF QB.

And between 2001-2003, Drew's record was 10 Wins and 17 Losses with 29 Touchdowns and 31 Interceptions. Also, in 2003 Brees was benched for Doug Flutie. The Chargers drafted Phillip Rivers in 2004 to replace Brees because they didn't see him as their franchise QB.

It sounds like you are making seem like Payton's success with the Saints was because of Drew. If that was the case then why Teddy Bridgewater and Taysom Hill was successful in the saints offense? And why Bridgewater was so bad when he left?
If Drew had been 6'3" and 225 instead of 6'0" and 205, he would have been the 1st or 2nd pick with his resume. It's that simple.

Drew went to a really bad SD team that had the top overall pick for a reason, and struggled as a young player much like other greats did in that generation when the rules did not protect QB's nearly as much or favor the offenses like they do today. Regardless, he eventually took that team to the playoffs with mediocre coaching and put up Pro Bowl numbers. Had he not torn his labrum in the final game of the 2005 season, SD would likely have kept him even after drafting Rivers. They still offered him a large contract even after the injury, but he opted for a better deal to come here.

Without Drew, we don't have a world title or the record-setting, sustained offensive success we had during his tenure. By the time guys like Bridgewater and Hill came in to relieve Drew for late-career injuries, our defense and special teams were good enough to help us win games without much offensive help. Did you see the offensive output from Bridgewater's Seattle, Dallas, and Jacksonville games? It was mediocre to putrid. He did have strong games against a bad Tampa and so-so Bears team, but overall, the offense took a step back. Same with Hill the following year, even though Brees was into his 40's by then.
 
If Drew had been 6'3" and 225 instead of 6'0" and 205, he would have been the 1st or 2nd pick with his resume. It's that simple.

Drew went to a really bad SD team that had the top overall pick for a reason, and struggled as a young player much like other greats did in that generation when the rules did not protect QB's nearly as much or favor the offenses like they do today. Regardless, he eventually took that team to the playoffs with mediocre coaching and put up Pro Bowl numbers. Had he not torn his labrum in the final game of the 2005 season, SD would likely have kept him even after drafting Rivers. They still offered him a large contract even after the injury, but he opted for a better deal to come here.

Without Drew, we don't have a world title or the record-setting, sustained offensive success we had during his tenure. By the time guys like Bridgewater and Hill came in to relieve Drew for late-career injuries, our defense and special teams were good enough to help us win games without much offensive help. Did you see the offensive output from Bridgewater's Seattle, Dallas, and Jacksonville games? It was mediocre to putrid. He did have strong games against a bad Tampa and so-so Bears team, but overall, the offense took a step back. Same with Hill the following year, even though Brees was into his 40's by then.
You don't know any of that for certain:
  • whether we win a SB without Drew
  • if SD would've (They wouldn't have) kept Drew even after drafting Rivers
I can easily turn around and say that maybe:
  • if Miami would've taken Drew that he would've had an unremarkable career in MIA and bounced around to a couple more teams and quietly faded after Saban flamed out
  • that Maybe we'd have another QB, a maybe we would've landed any of the other QBs that emerged after we took Drew (Luck, Stafford, etc) and had the same success w/ them
I think a lot of this comes from a fear that maybe, just maybe we find success...maybe even greater success with someone else and it turns out that Drew wasn't as special as some of you make him out to be. Was he great for us? YES, ABSOLUTELY....but he isn't this end all of quarterbacking, there are other fish in the sea and I have faith that CSP would've found another fish and turned him into a GOAT, just as he did w/ Drew.

Evidence:
5-0 with Teddy Bridgewater
5(4)-2 with Jameis Winston
7-2 with Taysom Hill
a finger tip interception away from 1-0 with Luke McCown on the road against a team that finished 15-1

The system works!

Edit: You've been beating this drum that CSP would be nothing without Brees, & Brees made him...but if you want to keep score, Drew was 7-9 without CSP....CSP is 17-5 without Drew...jussayin
 
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Debatable. How many WRs have left Brees and done better after they left? Meachem was a huge bust for SD.

Everything is pretty much debatable with this topic. I would say how much was Meachem's limited success here was due to a combination of Brees and CSP's offense?
Jeff Duncan’s book on the Payton and Brees offensive scheme is really illuminating in relation to Meachem. In short, the Saints evaluate all new receivers by having them run the full route tree with a view to identifying which they are most suited to and then they include those plays in the playbook. Which means that the playbook changes from year to year based on the attributes of our skill players on offense.

Apparently in Meachem’s case he really struggled to make sharp/quick cuts (as in, it was a physical limitation of his hip flexor/groin) and he would be easily covered by opposing DBs when running those routes. But as a straight ahead burner or a guy who could run a softer hook/curl route he was very hard to cover. So those are the only plays they built into the offense for him. And he was very effective when the team ran them.

Of course, he then got #1/#2 WR money in San Diego and they expected him to run all the routes that the Saints identified as a weakness. It’s no wonder that next minute he’s right back in NOLA.
 
We were one of the worst offenses, and one of the worst passing offenses this year even before Winston went down and injuries/COVID started ravaging our roster. MT wouldn't have vaulted us to the top of the league's offensive rankings. Payton's culture and a top-level defense kept us competitive against really tall odds, but there was no offensive wizardry this year at any point in the season.

I see this thrown around a lot....and it is total BS, without context....

With Jamies we averaged just over 28 points a game, I'm throwing out the Carolina game where almost all the coaches were out....with a 5-2 record.

The last 3 games (all wins) we averaged 360 yards a game in offense and JW threw for over 200 in all of them....Most rational/reasonable fans would argue the offense was trending upward....

All of a sudden passing yards has become this end all/be all stat with some, it makes zero sense. The offense with JW was very, very efficient, and the redzone numbers are eye poppingly good....and yet, the criticism "he never threw for 300 yards once" is absolutely ridiculous.

The reason the offense struggled and the whole team struggled (at times) was an unprecedented amount of injuries in combination with Covid....this offense, healthy, with JW running it, is fully capable of scoring 30+ a game....
 
Jeff Duncan’s book on the Payton and Brees offensive scheme is really illuminating in relation to Meachem. In short, the Saints evaluate all new receivers by having them run the full route tree with a view to identifying which they are most suited to and then they include those plays in the playbook. Which means that the playbook changes from year to year based on the attributes of our skill players on offense.

Apparently in Meachem’s case he really struggled to make sharp/quick cuts (as in, it was a physical limitation of his hip flexor/groin) and he would be easily covered by opposing DBs when running those routes. But as a straight ahead burner or a guy who could run a softer hook/curl route he was very hard to cover. So those are the only plays they built into the offense for him. And he was very effective when the team ran them.

Of course, he then got #1/#2 WR money in San Diego and they expected him to run all the routes that the Saints identified as a weakness. It’s no wonder that next minute he’s right back in NOLA.

Thanks for the info above, it makes perfect sense. I don't ever remember Meach catching a quick slant or a deep comeback, those routes both demand quick/sharp cuts .....
 
Jimmy G didn't do anything in the playoff game against Dallas yesterday to make me think he's better than Jameis. In fact, his late interception, which was entirely forced on his part since his team was leading and didn't need to make a big play, almost cost San Francisco the game. I would rather resign Jameis than ride with Jimmy G.
 
Jimmy G didn't do anything in the playoff game against Dallas yesterday to make me think he's better than Jameis. In fact, his late interception, which was entirely forced on his part since his team was leading and didn't need to make a big play, almost cost San Francisco the game. I would rather resign Jameis than ride with Jimmy G.
Yeah after watching that game I don't want the guy.
 
I see this thrown around a lot....and it is total BS, without context....

With Jamies we averaged just over 28 points a game, I'm throwing out the Carolina game where almost all the coaches were out....with a 5-2 record.

The last 3 games (all wins) we averaged 360 yards a game in offense and JW threw for over 200 in all of them....Most rational/reasonable fans would argue the offense was trending upward....

All of a sudden passing yards has become this end all/be all stat with some, it makes zero sense. The offense with JW was very, very efficient, and the redzone numbers are eye poppingly good....and yet, the criticism "he never threw for 300 yards once" is absolutely ridiculous.

The reason the offense struggled and the whole team struggled (at times) was an unprecedented amount of injuries in combination with Covid....this offense, healthy, with JW running it, is fully capable of scoring 30+ a game....
Strange that Winston doesnt get credit in passing over 5100 yards in 16 games but gets a bad rap concerning his per game passing yards average. He only played 5.5 games in a new system and with a putrid recieving group
 

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