Gillette's New "Toxic Masculinity" Ad (2 Viewers)

[mjcouvi]

agreed on all counts - including the lack of success

when I posted about empathy a few days ago, the impetus is basically what you describe here

and yet, as recently as on the previous page, we have comments about how someone isn't credible to talk about something or be an authority on something because he looks a certain way

that sort of predisposition doesn't say much about a willingness to adopt the sort of mindset you're talking about

it's also doubly weird for someone to base a judgment and declare someone 'not credible' based on looks alone then try to push back on the idea that someone might judge another person based on gender alone. "This dude can't do X because look at him!" isn't far removed from "That girl can't do Y because she's a girl."

Windmills don't tilt themselves, I guess

We just need to keep challenging ourselves to be better I guess.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

We just need to keep challenging ourselves to be better I guess.

Something about planks and splinters

 

[saintfan-n-alex]

If a person has to get their morals from a TV commercial, they are pretty much beyond help.

I don’t even buy razors based on tv commercials about razors

I use dollar shave club for all I know Gillette makes the razors all i know it has solved my razor needs

Also funny is the Harry razor ads in this thread

 

[DavidM]

Sure, there is nothing to see here. Meanwhile the American Psychology Association has issued new guidelines pushing against "traditional masculinity", finding that traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful.

The APA's summary went on to include this:

It’s also important to encourage pro-social aspects of masculinity, says McDermott. In certain circumstances, traits like stoicism and self-sacrifice can be absolutely crucial, he says. But the same tough demeanor that might save a soldier’s life in a war zone can destroy it at home with a romantic partner or child.

“There are times when you need to be able to power through,” McDermott says. “But if you only do that, and you believe that if you don’t do that then you’re somehow less worthy as a person, that’s where you have a problem.”

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner.aspx

 

[mjcouvi]

Something about planks and splinters

If you're trying to make me have no idea what you're talking about, you've succeeded.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

If you're trying to make me have no idea what you're talking about, you've succeeded.

i was trying to find a shortcut, quick response before getting the boys ready for school
i was agreeing with your statement about being kind and Oye's pointing out the obvious paradox in a poster's comments

i was thinking about your post but was going to add, "like an oxygen mask when the cabin loses pressure, take care of yourself first and then it makes it easier to take care of others"
but then Oye's comment made me think of the message of taking the plank out of your eye before you talk smack about the splinter in another's eye
(not 'you' singular, but all of us)

but as happens with shortcuts, sometimes it takes longer to get there
*shrug*

 

[mjcouvi]

i was trying to find a shortcut, quick response before getting the boys ready for school
i was agreeing with your statement about being kind and Oye's pointing out the obvious paradox in a poster's comments

i was thinking about your post but was going to add, "like an oxygen mask when the cabin loses pressure, take care of yourself first and then it makes it easier to take care of others"
but then Oye's comment made me think of the message of taking the plank out of your eye before you talk smack about the splinter in another's eye
(not 'you' singular, but all of us)

but as happens with shortcuts, sometimes it takes longer to get there
*shrug*

...So something about planks and splinters. Now I get it

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

The APA's summary went on to include this:

It’s also important to encourage pro-social aspects of masculinity, says McDermott. In certain circumstances, traits like stoicism and self-sacrifice can be absolutely crucial, he says. But the same tough demeanor that might save a soldier’s life in a war zone can destroy it at home with a romantic partner or child.

“There are times when you need to be able to power through,” McDermott says. “But if you only do that, and you believe that if you don’t do that then you’re somehow less worthy as a person, that’s where you have a problem.”

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner.aspx

so that's the rub
essentially, like every other organism on the planet, adaptability is the prime directive
the 'toxic' part of masculinity is when it tries to be the same thing in every circumstance
yes, in a high pressure situation, stoicism might be the best course - if your kid comes to your with a real issue - -sort of like what Orion describes - and you meet him with emotionless affect - then you're an ***hole and are probably doing more damage

be a human first, a man second
be a parent first, a dad second

 

[FLIPPY]

We just need to keep challenging ourselves to be better I guess.

Unfortunately that's kind of hard to do because women get so "offended" by everything today. Try holding the door, or pay a compliment to a woman today and see how she reacts... I'm sure most would appreciate it, but you'll never know.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

 

[DavidM]

Unfortunately that's kind of hard to do because women get so "offended" by everything today. Try holding the door, or pay a compliment to a woman today and see how she reacts... I'm sure most would appreciate it, but you'll never know.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

I hold doors open for people all the time, I don't remember ever receiving a negative reaction.

I just don't understand this concern. You even say most would appreciate it - why isn't that good enough? I'm not going to quit trying to be a decent person on the off chance somebody might be offended by a well-intended gesture.

 

[brandon8283]

LOL, typical Marxist giving away something that doesn't belong to you.

I am joking - makes perfect sense and we did that as kids as well. IIRC, the extent of the head start could be the subject of some intense negotiations.

I've posted this image before. Equity is not Marxism. It's also not equality.

 

[Saint_Ward]

I don't feel this way, but it made me laugh.

 

[Cage1]

No one's going to mention that none of them should be watching the game without paying admission anyway?

 

[Arathrael]

Complimenting a random girl is harassment? If I see a girl in the street and tell her "hey, you look really great in that dress"...do you think such a compliment is harassment? I call it a way to meet women. Giving someone a positive compliment is not harassment. Now if someone tells you to get away, and you keep bothering them, now THAT's harassment.

I think this has already been covered essentially, but it comes up so often I'll add my two cents:

This illustrates the difference between individual harassment and systemic harassment.

You know that if one guy keeps complimenting a woman who doesn't want to be complimented, that's harassment. No question. If one guy does that, say twenty times in a day, I don't think anyone is going to argue that isn't harassment. OK.

But if twenty different guys all do the same thing to the same woman once each, that's not that different from the woman's perspective.

Sure, none of them individually think they're harassing her; they're all only doing it once, and they didn't know for sure she didn't want them to do it, did they? But from the woman's point of view, she's still being hassled twenty times.

So yes, if we have a culture of randomly hitting on women in the street, that does result in women being systematically harassed.

 

[SystemShock]

No one's going to mention that none of them should be watching the game without paying admission anyway?

Well, they are all brown, so it is expected