Gillette's New "Toxic Masculinity" Ad (1 Viewer)

It doesn't. And you know that. Look:


At no point in your description of 'macho' do you include sexual harassment, bullying, discrimination, etc. Which are the things the ad is attacking. And you say your idea of macho includes intervening instead of standing by, which the ad actively encourages.

By your definition of macho, the ad is condemning things that you don't consider macho, while encouraging things you do consider to be macho.

So how on Earth do you reach the conclusion that it's attacking men or masculinity as a whole?

I don’t describe those things as macho, because they are not in my mind. In my mind it’s uncouth behavior.


You hit the nail on the head. They are attacking bad behavior and insinuate that men of the past and present embodied that bad behavior. Come on man, you are smarter than this. Don’t swing at every pitch they throw you, thinking they are all fastballs.
 
It doesn't. And you know that. Look:


At no point in your description of 'macho' do you include sexual harassment, bullying, discrimination, etc. Which are the things the ad is attacking. And you say your idea of macho includes intervening instead of standing by, which the ad actively encourages.

By your definition of macho, the ad is condemning things that you don't consider macho, while encouraging things you do consider to be macho.

So how on Earth do you reach the conclusion that it's attacking men or masculinity as a whole?

Quoted for truth.
 





16 pages and I haven't heard one person articulate what specific example is problematic in this ad and why this ad, aside from being sappy produced corporate pandering, is any different than an ad against homophobia or racism?

Have men not on a notable scale embraced aspects of this behavior? I've certainly seen it, any look at popular culture in the last 50 years and the behavior on social media platforms that claim millions of members speaks to it. So why is this any different than an ad talking about prejudice, homophobia, or being a better Christian?

As to the assumption that this is an attempt to implicate all men, that same argument could literally be used for any PSA and the subset of a group they are talking about, so the argument falls incredibly flat unless this level of hyperventilating is something you do every time someone comes on the TV and mentions undesirable behavior amongst a population, to which my reply would be to grow up.
 
You hit the nail on the head. They are attacking bad behavior
Agreed.
and insinuate that men of the past and present embodied that bad behavior.
No, they are insinuating that some men of the past and present embodied that bad behavior. They also show examples of men standing up and doing the right thing, proving that they mean some men, and not all men. And in light of the situations regarding Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby, etc. etc. etc., how can you possibly disagree with that?

Because you want to be a victim. But a macho man wouldn't allow himself to be a victim.

:nono: bim
 
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Agreed.

No, they are insinuating that some men of the past and present embodied that bad behavior. And in light of the situations regarding Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby, etc. etc. etc., how can you possibly disagree with that?

Because you want to be a victim. But a macho man wouldn't allow himself to be a victim.

Ergo, you are not macho. You're a birch.

Did you just call me a birch. Lol (probably not a good idea for us to hook up at a saints game)

I don’t even know what feeling like a victim is. I am the polar opposite. I like to fight not cower like a victim. I am a lion my friend not a cub.

If you think this ad was just targeting some men, gosh no wonder our society is going to Hell in a hand basket.
 
Agreed.

No, they are insinuating that some men of the past and present embodied that bad behavior. They also show examples of men standing up and doing the right thing, proving that they mean some men, and not all men. And in light of the situations regarding Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby, etc. etc. etc., how can you possibly disagree with that?

Because you want to be a victim. But a macho man wouldn't allow himself to be a victim.

Ergo, you are not macho. You're a birch.

Did you just call me a birch. Lol (probably not a good idea for us to hook up at a saints game)

I don’t even know what feeling like a victim is. I am the polar opposite. I like to fight not cower like a victim. I am a lion my friend not a cub.

If you think this ad was just targeting some men, gosh no wonder our society is going to Hell in a hand basket.

tenor.gif
 
I get what you are saying 100%. Every classification has its nuances. Though some of the folks on his board only see nuances in the positions they support.

My assessment stands. A group of people, some that have posted in this thread, see masculinity as a negative thing. As you highlighted in your explanation, there are nuances. What I consider masculine is not what was described In the Gillette commercial.

Yes, the dads who stopped the bullying are great dads, but that isn’t masculine. If it were my wife would be masculine and I don’t think anyone would call her masculine.

This screams as a way to put down on men. I also think they are taking a page out of the nike book. Let’s attack big dad white men. (Watch the commercial, not until the last few clips does it show a white man doing anything “positive”.

I think you can be masculine while not engaging in some of the behavior the add refers to. I don't think it is saying that being masculine is bad, just that some of the ways people sometimes talk to/treat women, or fail to be good role models for their kids can be pretty bad.
 
Nah, oye. Nuance and reality have no place for him and others in this thread. We must lump all feminists in one pile and demonize them. Whether for being unattractive or shrill or hairy, they are the enemy and must be destroyed.

At least there is some consistency in their inability to discern nuance. They are unable to view the ad as making a point about some behavior by some men. No, because according to them if you criticize the behavior of one man, by god, you have denigrated them all.

It’s a cartoonish point of view more suited to the playground than to an adult discussion, IMO.


Let's take the old nuancemobile out for a drive and see where it takes us.

Your position is that the ad is making the point that some men engage in bad behavior, and by implication that it recognizes that the majority of men already do the right thing.

My take on it is that the ad says exactly the opposite of what you claim.

The ad starts off by showing a horde of young males chasing one child. (Meanwhile the voiceover is saying that we can't hide from this and that it has been going on for far too long, suggesting that is currently what we as a whole are currently doing).

Then we see some cartoonish examples of sexual harassment, followed by a whole room full of men laughing hysterically.

Then we see a line of men grilling, repeatedly chanting in a cult like fashion, "boys will be boys," while watching two boys fight.

Now we come to a brief scene of a "reporter" (from the Young Turks no less) talking about allegations of sexual harassment, playing on the "metoo" movement which is a constant them throughout. And then the frame is filled by frames within that frame of various reporters discussing sexual harassment claims (obviously intent to emphasize just how pervasive the problem is among men).

And the voiceover declares that "then something changed, and there will be no going back."

We then see the room full of men (with a woman here and there) who were previously laughing, now with solemn looks on their faces.

Why will there be no turning back? "Because we (Gillette?) believe in the best in the men. To say the right thing. To act the right way. Some, already are. In ways big, and in ways small. But some, is not enough."


So, I am glad you decided to focus on some, versus most. Now, make your best nuanced argument to support your belief that the ad reflects that only some men behave poorly.
 
Let me get this right. A guy calls me a birch in a toxic masculinity thread. I am the person standing up for masculinity and you don’t expect me to call him out?

My description of masculinity. Male band director calls someone a birch, band directors horn playing skills are seriously diminished for the next few days.
 
Oh the fun irony:

I start reading this thread and at the top is an ad for Harry's razors. As I read through scroll down I see an ad for Flamingo women's razors.
 
Let me get this right. A guy calls me a birch in a toxic masculinity thread. I am the person standing up for masculinity and you don’t expect me to call him out?

So that's how you stand up for masculinity? Getting so upset at another person for implying, using logic you laid out in this thread, that you are a birch so much so that you then imply that you would punch him over words on a computer screen? Sounds pretty toxic to me.
 

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