Girl Starts Caucasian Club (2 Viewers)

[mg450]

While I realize the discussion has left the caucasian club....I have to say that I think one part of the article is HILARIOUS....



Uh...why is "Colored People" heritage, but "Caucasian" race??

Yes. Of course. It was black people who chose the moniker "colored people." Right.

 

[varanook]

2. Afro Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans etc have clubs so they can still learn about their culture and history without being lost in the general American scheme which is largely Eurocentric because most Americans, especially those in power as our naiton was forming) are of European ancestry. Thus, the reason does not apply to white Americans. So then the white reason must be different than the minority reason. Gee I wonder what that reason has historically been? Hmmmm.

This is the problem not the solution. Stop ASSUMING. You know what they say about what happens when you assume something. Give over and move on mg450.

 

[Rob Beaux]

Currently, on Fed gov job apps, the box for African American applies only to sub-Sahara people and exempts people from S. Africa or North of the Sahara desert. According the feds if you're heritage is Egyptian, you can not call yourself an African-American and you are classified with the rest of the white Europeans who they don't hire.
This is from numerous personal experiences.

your full of it....the only countries that are not hired is certain "terrorist/unfriendly countries". Try again...some of us are in the Federal system or have relatives who do hiring in the system. In addition...there is no race box on a federal application. They are not allowed to ask.

 

[mg450]

This is the problem not the solution. Stop ASSUMING. You know what they say about what happens when you assume something. Give over and move on mg450.

OK Varanook. I won't assume. We know that the white club reason is inherently not formed for the same reason as minority clubs? so why are they formed? And there are "white" clubs all over the place - Italian American clubs - Irish American Clubs. Etc. You don't find those a little different than "white pride"

And about your snide remark about assumptions - I bet you've made some about me, or so it seems...

 

[varanook]

We know that the white club reason is inherently not formed for the same reason as minority clubs?

No in this case we do not, you are assuming again.

so why are they formed?

I am sure you can tell me why they are though.

And about your snide remark about assumptions - I bet you've made some about me, or so it seems...

You are correct, I believe you to be stuck in race problems that have lessened severely over the last 50 years. I gather this because you continue to insinuate that "white" clubs are bad because they will become oppressive to the rest of society and "black" clubs being ok because it is about pride and they will never be racially motivated.
I also think this because of your comments on "white" european history throughout this thread and insinuating how we don't teach enough about black, hispanic, etc.. history.
Well as for the history part, to the victor...
Personally I think Americans should learn American history told through American eyes and not history from another country.

 

[RebSaint]

Personally I think Americans should learn American history told through American eyes and not history from another country.

And here's why this perspective is flawed: Define for me "American?" I know from my years of reading history that American was defined largely along the lines of race.

For example, citizenship and all the benefits conferred to citizens were denied African Americans for a very long time. Same goes with Native Americans, women, etc. That kind of legacy of oppression or omission doesn't just go away overnight.

So what you really said, unwittingly, is history should be only told from a white perspective--because what it meant to be an "American" for so long hinged on race. And that other nations' and cultures' points of view isn't important in understanding American history. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm not saying teaching dead whitey history isn't important. It is. But I also think learning about Gullah culture in South Carolina, Cajuns in Southern Louisiana, and the Harlem Renaissance are just as important.

And teaching the American Revolution from only a colonists' perspective is rather limiting, don't you think? To understand or grasp any society's history, all groups, cultures, sub-cultures, ideas, etc. have to at least be examined and taken into account.

Teaching history from only an "American" position is rather misleading and vague--since the "American" position for so long was race-class based, and didn't consider other perspectives. Believe me, knowing World War II from the Japanese or German perspective (not taking their "side" per se), gives one a more-informed, in-depth perspective of the World War II.

African-American history IS American history. Same goes with Native American History, etc. Since oppressed groups were not considered "full" Americans, the story of "America" is largely a story of how and why they were oppressed. Not all of American history is the story of dead white guys.

 

[Brad Mojo]

I'm way too busy to read this whole thread. Someone please summarize the whole thing for me. Thanks.

 

[antipop]

I'm way too busy to read this whole thread. Someone please summarize the whole thing for me. Thanks.

racism is uncool

 

[V Chip]

I'm way too busy to read this whole thread. Someone please summarize the whole thing for me. Thanks.

We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in evryone,
We learn to live, we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together alive.

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord why dont we?

 

[Saint by the Bay]

We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in evryone,
We learn to live, we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together alive.

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord why dont we?

 

[mg450]

No in this case we do not, you are assuming again.



I am sure you can tell me why they are though.



You are correct, I believe you to be stuck in race problems that have lessened severely over the last 50 years. I gather this because you continue to insinuate that "white" clubs are bad because they will become oppressive to the rest of society and "black" clubs being ok because it is about pride and they will never be racially motivated.
I also think this because of your comments on "white" european history throughout this thread and insinuating how we don't teach enough about black, hispanic, etc.. history.
Well as for the history part, to the victor...
Personally I think Americans should learn American history told through American eyes and not history from another country.

Not even sure where to begin:

1. Minority clubs are formed so that minorities can have the rare experience of having culture etc based in their exact ethnicity put up front. This is already the case for Caucasians (as you say, to the victor went the spoils). So then the reason can't be the same. So what is it? Please give me some other ideas...

2. Varanook - Though I am sure you think the opposite, it isn't people like me keeping society back (and perpetuating problems related to race) - it's you.

3. Although I know you don't like to assume, if you knew me (which I must say I am glad you don't), you would know that I am in no way what you have painted me to be in your mind. I am defending a point that I believe in. It is amazing that people likeyou can point fingers at peeople like me and Saint by the Bay and actually think we are the the problem with the world today involving race. Let me guess, you have plenty of friends that still use the "n" word. And let me guess you think they are good guys, they just say that, it doesn't mean anything. Or am I assuming too much.

4. And I have found even many of the posters I disagreee with to be reasonable and just of a different mindset. I'm not so sure I can give you the benefit of the doubt anymore.

5. Read my posts: I never said white clubs will become oppressive to the rest of society. I simply question the motivation. And if I seem upset, it isn't because I am angry at white people (I am in fact mixed). It just frustrates me to read stuff like that which you post.

 

[RebSaint]

To suspect that all-white clubs may have racist intentions is very reasonable. History is replete with racially exclusive white "clubs" which didn't overtly state the purpose and intent of such exclusivity, but anybody with a half a brain can figure out why such a club or organization exists.

A prime example I can think of is many college fraternities--especially those in the South with a long legacy of "old money" behind them.

*cough* *cough*

It's not just a coincidence that there aren't any black people in these frats. Same goes with some black fraternities.

 

[BullDawg]

I think I'm going to start a Mississippian's club here in Alabama. It should be a hit.

 

[SaintJ]

It's not just a coincidence that there aren't any black people in these frats. Same goes with some black fraternities.

Well, ummm, then, who's in them?

 

[varanook]

And here's why this perspective is flawed: Define for me "American?" I know from my years of reading history that American was defined largely along the lines of race.

For example, citizenship and all the benefits conferred to citizens were denied African Americans for a very long time. Same goes with Native Americans, women, etc. That kind of legacy of oppression or omission doesn't just go away overnight.

So what you really said, unwittingly, is history should be only told from a white perspective--because what it meant to be an "American" for so long hinged on race. And that other nations' and cultures' points of view isn't important in understanding American history. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm not saying teaching dead whitey history isn't important. It is. But I also think learning about Gullah culture in South Carolina, Cajuns in Southern Louisiana, and the Harlem Renaissance are just as important.

And teaching the American Revolution from only a colonists' perspective is rather limiting, don't you think? To understand or grasp any society's history, all groups, cultures, sub-cultures, ideas, etc. have to at least be examined and taken into account.

Teaching history from only an "American" position is rather misleading and vague--since the "American" position for so long was race-class based, and didn't consider other perspectives. Believe me, knowing World War II from the Japanese or German perspective (not taking their "side" per se), gives one a more-informed, in-depth perspective of the World War II.

African-American history IS American history. Same goes with Native American History, etc. Since oppressed groups were not considered "full" Americans, the story of "America" is largely a story of how and why they were oppressed. Not all of American history is the story of dead white guys.

I don't have a problem with what is being taught now, if someone wants to learn more than become a history major.

Too many time constraints to change things a whole lot. I would rather kids become more proficient in Math, English, Civics and the Sciences personally since they are more important in my eyes. I only think a basic historical background is important, just enough so we do not repeat the mistakes of the past and that is it.