Gone With The Wind Temporally Removed From HBO MAX (Or How To Look Back On Controversial Media) (2 Viewers)

Saint Jack

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Before anyone says it’s oversensitivity, the full movie will return unedited. It’ll just include a discussion about the stereotypes and probably a warning.

WB did something similar when they released the Looney Tunes to DVD unedited.
 

kizzy821

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Here's a deeper question on "cancel culture" that recently popped up in our office conversations.

Can you (and should you, or would you, or do you) separate the art from the artist?

Examples:

1. Let's say your favorite artist is Mike Phone, and Mike one day is arrested and convicted on, say, domestic violence. Or rape. Or murder. Or whatever the "breaking point" is for you in terms of crime/sin. Should you stop listening to Mike's past music that you love, and that maybe even "helps" your own happiness?

2. What if your favorite team signs a player that did something you find awful. Let's say, for this case, Derrius Guice is convicted of what he was just charged with, but is available in 2 years, the Saints sign him, and he goes on to have a 1,000 yard season. Do you cheer when Guice scores, because the Saints come first? Do you boycott the Saints? Do you groan at the uncomfort you find?

3. Or if your favorite restaurant owner has been harassing women or people of color. Do you boycott his restaurant(s), or can you enjoy his food/menu?

4. Can someone still watch The Cosby Show with a new generation of kids because it is wholesome TV content, even knowing the main person has been charged with heinous crimes?

Now, to be clear, the actions above are just examples. The "criminal or moral act" can be whatever disgusts you. I just provided headline type examples.

This is a complicated situation of course. Boycotting a famous restaurant owner doesn't necessarily hurt him the most. He's theoretically well set up from cookbook sales, TV money, savings, etc. But if suddenly no one comes to the restaurant, how does that impact the line cook? The dishwasher? The host/hostess? They may ultimately suffer more than the owner ever would.

Likewise, an NFL team is a moving machine of 53 main roster players, 10 practice squad players, 20 IR guys, a dozen coaches, operations staff, etc. Does you giving up your NFL tickets to make a point impact our fictional Derrius Guice scenario, or does it just impact your enjoyment of life, etc?

Is it easier to support a team still over an individual such as a solo singer, golfer, tennis player, etc? But even then managers, backup singers, bandmates, etc are impacted.

So is there a "right" answer? A "right" balance? Is there a way to "punish" someone in the examples above?
I've tried to come up with a definitive answer to this question for ages and finally settled on "It depends." Not on how heinous the crimes and allegations are, but on how good the art is.

I've enjoyed some Chris Brown songs over the years and thought he was on the verge of becoming a mega-star. But now I can barely make it through an entire track.

On the other hand, I'll go days and weeks of binging on nothing but R. Kelly songs. I'll consume myself with his discography, with no attempts to disengage. I recently discovered a bonus track he recorded of a MJ song... Dramatic irony, I guess.

One of my top 5 favorite movies of all time is Buffalo '66. Written, directed, scored and starring Vincent Gallo.

I don't think he's been accused of any crimes (yet) but he's a putrid person and the antithesis of everything righteous.

Yet, I will never not be in love with that film. I identify with the main character, Billy Brown, more than any fictional character that's ever been put forth on a screen or in a book or in a song.

I won't let him go. Even though his creator is ill-minded.
 
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My answer to that is I’ll cancel people for acting bad. I won’t for thinking or even speaking bad. Player comes to the Saints who abuses a woman, I’m sitting the season out. If he gets up and talks about hating Jews, well if he rushes for 1600 I might consider the possibility that he has a good reason.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I am late to this but I have never seen it. I don't understand all the cancel stuff. If I find something offensive I don't watch it.
i encourage you to go back through the thread - i thought it was a mostly civil/interesting discussion
but
to address your question, consider this"
Jim Crow was the black face character name of a white dude who had learned some old "negro songs"
at first he just tried to sing the songs and the crowds were kinda 'meh' but then he started exaggerating 'black' mannerisms and he (and blackface performers afterwards) noticed that was really no limit to how buffoonish they could make those characters - the audience wanted them as cartoonish as possible
this minstrelry exploded in popularity - the reason they were called "Jim Crow" laws was because the dominant idea that white people had about black people (all over but also specifically in the South) was from seeing them portrayed, parodied, lampooned, mocked, et al on the minstrel stages
"I've seen the way black people really are (on minstrel stages) and it's clear that they are too dumb to police themselves so we'll have to do it for them"

so now consider GWTW - even in 2021, it's still hard as heck to have slavery taught in schools anywhere close to contextually accurate - and you better believe that was the case when GWTW came out and many decades afterwards
GWTW was the best selling book of its time by a wide margin AND then the most popular movie - it's easy to surmise that the dominant narrative about slavery came from GWTW - that slavery 'wasn't that bad'
can you see the lingering social, cultural, political fallout that it has had?
Why in the world would we NOT want that contextualized?
 

Semper

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i encourage you to go back through the thread - i thought it was a mostly civil/interesting discussion
but
to address your question, consider this"
Jim Crow was the black face character name of a white dude who had learned some old "negro songs"
at first he just tried to sing the songs and the crowds were kinda 'meh' but then he started exaggerating 'black' mannerisms and he (and blackface performers afterwards) noticed that was really no limit to how buffoonish they could make those characters - the audience wanted them as cartoonish as possible
this minstrelry exploded in popularity - the reason they were called "Jim Crow" laws was because the dominant idea that white people had about black people (all over but also specifically in the South) was from seeing them portrayed, parodied, lampooned, mocked, et al on the minstrel stages
"I've seen the way black people really are (on minstrel stages) and it's clear that they are too dumb to police themselves so we'll have to do it for them"

so now consider GWTW - even in 2021, it's still hard as heck to have slavery taught in schools anywhere close to contextually accurate - and you better believe that was the case when GWTW came out and many decades afterwards
GWTW was the best selling book of its time by a wide margin AND then the most popular movie - it's easy to surmise that the dominant narrative about slavery came from GWTW - that slavery 'wasn't that bad'
can you see the lingering social, cultural, political fallout that it has had?
Why in the world would we NOT want that contextualized?
I have no answers.
 
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You kidding me? I had to get children to explain it to me.
If it was, I had no idea. Loved them when I was a kid. Haven't watched in like 35 years os so.
“The years with the Muppets, it was really all targeted to adults. It was in a time when everything had to be safe for the whole family. But he was targeting adults.” -Brian Henson

If you go back and watch the shows now with a more mature understanding then it's a lot more obvious.

The Muppets: kids’ stuff or subversive adult comedy? | Den of Geek
 

Mr. Sparkle

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A couple episodes of the Muppet Show not on Disney+, other episodes have a disclaimer

This isn't new for them, Disney has done this for at least 15 years with the disclaimers on some of the cartoons on the Walt Disney Treasures DVD sets

There's not a disclaimer out there that will allow the Song of the South to see the light of day again
==================================
Jim Henson’s classic series “The Muppet Show” began streaming on Disney+ on Friday, but now comes prefaced with an offensive content disclaimer.

“This program includes negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures,” the warning reads. “These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now. Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it and spark conversations to create a more inclusive future together.”

The show, which ran for five seasons between 1976 and 1981, features the new content warning on 18 episodes, including those guest-hosted by Steve Martin, Peter Sellers, Kenny Rogers, Johnny Cash, Debbie Harry and Marty Feldman, among others.

Each episode bears the 12-second disclaimer for a different reason, from Cash’s appearance singing in front of a Confederate flag to negative depictions of Native Americans, Middle Easterners and people from other cultures. Additionally, two episodes from the final season, featuring guest stars Brooke Shields and staff writer Chris Langham, are left out entirely...................

'Muppet Show' now has content disclaimer warning on Disney+ - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

It was the harmful depiction of the Swedish Chef wasn't it.

1614090217043.png
 

Optimus Prime

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New series starts tonight
===================

Loving classic films can be a fraught pastime. Just consider the cultural firestorm over “Gone With the Wind” this past summer. No one knows this better than the film lovers at Turner Classic Movies who daily are confronted with the complicated reality that many of old Hollywood’s most celebrated films are also often a kitchen sink of stereotypes.

This summer, amid the Black Lives Matter protests, the channel’s programmers and hosts decided to do something about it.

The result is a new series, “ Reframed Classics,” which promises wide-ranging discussions about 18 culturally significant films from the 1920s through the 1960s that also have problematic aspects, from “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” and Mickey Rooney’s performance as Mr. Yunioshi to Fred Astaire’s blackface routine in “Swing Time.” It kicks off Thursday at 8 p.m. ET with none other than “Gone With the Wind.”


“We know millions of people love these films,” said TCM host Jacqueline Stewart, who is participating in many of the conversations. “We’re not saying this is how you should feel about ‘Pyscho’ or this is how you should feel about ‘Gone with the Wind.’

We’re just trying to model ways of having longer and deeper conversations and not just cutting it off to ‘I love this movie. I hate this movie.’ There’s so much space in between.”..............

 

guidomerkinsrules

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the Fred Astaire one is the one that hurts the most (along with Bugs Bunny blackface)
but maybe it's better to show Bojangles and the actual artistic scions than Fred's 'homage'
 

Madmarsha

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In Technicolor.
You remember what I'm talking about, right? It was mostly a Ted Turner thing and his decision to colorize old black and white films ... like Casablanca or It's a Wonderful Life
 

Mr. Sparkle

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New series starts tonight
===================

Loving classic films can be a fraught pastime. Just consider the cultural firestorm over “Gone With the Wind” this past summer. No one knows this better than the film lovers at Turner Classic Movies who daily are confronted with the complicated reality that many of old Hollywood’s most celebrated films are also often a kitchen sink of stereotypes.

This summer, amid the Black Lives Matter protests, the channel’s programmers and hosts decided to do something about it.

The result is a new series, “ Reframed Classics,” which promises wide-ranging discussions about 18 culturally significant films from the 1920s through the 1960s that also have problematic aspects, from “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” and Mickey Rooney’s performance as Mr. Yunioshi to Fred Astaire’s blackface routine in “Swing Time.” It kicks off Thursday at 8 p.m. ET with none other than “Gone With the Wind.”


“We know millions of people love these films,” said TCM host Jacqueline Stewart, who is participating in many of the conversations. “We’re not saying this is how you should feel about ‘Pyscho’ or this is how you should feel about ‘Gone with the Wind.’

We’re just trying to model ways of having longer and deeper conversations and not just cutting it off to ‘I love this movie. I hate this movie.’ There’s so much space in between.”..............


"Let's hold your hand while we watch this old movie and explain why old movies express old ideas..."

just send me the blu ray
 

DaveXA

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when the problem all along was whitizing
So, I hadn't heard of this term before. Had to look it up. Lol.

 

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