Gotta Re-sign Jameis at This Point (4 Viewers)

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I think that model needs to end because it was causing problems in the early part of the season. Not to rehash an old debate but if Winston is your starter let him operate the vast majority of the snaps outside of special situations. How much of Hill's usage in the past was a byproduct of Drew's age? As I've said before, it is not unusual for a team to use special plays for playmakers but if Winston is your QB you don't need Taysom to throw the ball. Winston is very effective in the red zone, so why would that be necessary. Most teams only do that in special situations. If we acquired one of the dream QBs (Russ, Rogers, etc.) would you say we to have Taysom throw the ball more?
It may need to come to an end, but I doubt Payton sees it that way or he will end it.

Hill's QB usage was the same with Winston as the starter, so I don't think Payton ever saw it as a product of Bree's age.

I don't think it's a matter of what's necessary for Payton. I think it has more to do with stressing opposing defenses by throwing as much at them to prepare for as he can. He's said as much. That's why he uses so many different packages and alignments.

For Payton, I don't think it's a matter of him thinking Hill has to throw the ball more. I think he sees it as Hill can effectively throw the ball more and that will give even more things for the opposing defense to prepare for.

Payton has made it very clear what he thinks and why he does the things he does. I don't see him changing how much he uses Hill as a QB if Hill is not the starter. I think that will be made very clear to any other QB they may try to sign or trade for.
 

No2DC

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It may need to come to an end, but I doubt Payton sees it that way or he will end it.

Hill's QB usage was the same with Winston as the starter, so I don't think Payton ever saw it as a product of Bree's age.

I don't think it's a matter of what's necessary for Payton. I think it has more to do with stressing opposing defenses by throwing as much at them to prepare for as he can. He's said as much. That's why he uses so many different packages and alignments.

For Payton, I don't think it's a matter of him thinking Hill has to throw the ball more. I think he sees it as Hill can effectively throw the ball more and that will give even more things for the opposing defense to prepare for.

Payton has made it very clear what he thinks and why he does the things he does. I don't see him changing how much he uses Hill as a QB if Hill is not the starter. I think that will be made very clear to any other QB they may try to sign or trade for.
You honestly think they would do that with Russ or Rogers? I don't believe that at all. We can play make-believe because Jameis is not an established tier 1 QB but you don't play those games with a guy like Mahomes or Herbert. I believe the Taysom process ( splash plays and an occasional long throw) was largely a byproduct of Drew's age.
 

No2DC

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There have not been much success running a 2 QB system in the pros, and the success they did get was fleeting.
That's my point, you role with your guy outside of trick plays. They do that in college but not in the NFL. I don't think Drew would have been cool with it in his physical prime.
 
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You honestly think they would do that with Russ or Rogers? I don't believe that at all. We can play make-believe because Jameis is not an established tier 1 QB but you don't play those games with a guy like Mahomes or Herbert. I believe the Taysom process ( splash plays and an occasional long throw) was largely a byproduct of Drew's age.
Based on everything Payton's done through the years and his insights into why he does them, I think it's very likely that he will continue to use Hill the way he has when Hill is not the starter.

You see it as Payton playing games with his starting QB's. Payton does it to play games with opposing defenses by giving them too much to prepare for. He's said that himself. He will run plays in a game just to put plays on tape for upcoming opponents to have to think about and prepare for.

Patyon has said he started using Hill because he could at that it made it hard for defenses to prepare, not because he had to use him because of Brees's age. Brees attempted more deep passes than Hill in his last two seasons, so that doesn't line up with it being about Brees's age or diminishing arm strength either.

I also think that Payton has enough offensive clout and credibility that any QB will understand why Payton does it and that they'll buy into it.

I think some fans have a bigger issue with it than most QB's. I also know that Payton has a say in who they offer a contract to and who they don't. He probably wouldn't sign or trade for a QB that would have a problem with it.

I could see Rogers balking at the idea. I think Wilson would be open to it.
 

bayoumilitia

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I don't believe that Payton has any interest in Wilson or Rodgers.

I think he' smart enough to know that the results of any trade that got either of them would kneecap the team for long enough that the current roster we have that's built to win now would go away and we'd be stuck in 2014 again.
I hope you’re right, but……
We did call Seattle last offseason and inquire about Russ’s availability and that was when Winston was healthy and under contract. So if CSP was entertaining that idea last year with healthy QBs under contract why wouldn’t he do that now? Did his interest in Russ change? I doubt it, I hope I’m wrong but we shall see.

I’m against the Wilson pursuit but Winston will cost almost the same amount, hell maybe more for 2022 if we re-sign him. Wilson’s cap hit is $19 mil in 2022 and even if he wanted a new contract after the trade Loomis would convert a huge amount to signing bonus to spread the hit out over the duration of his new deal. Heck, there’s a way to re-sign Winston or trade and negotiate a new contract with Wilson but still have their 2022 cap number down to $10-15 mil by getting creative with the bonuses. Which would still leave a good chunk of FA money
 
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SweetT

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I think that'll depend on what all other options he has available to him. Like I said, I don't have a side in the Winston/Hill debate, I like them both. But I think That Jameis is better than a lot of teams' starters this past season, although some are rookies teams seem to believe in, there are other teams throwing darts.

Panthers (not a Darnold believer)
Dolphins (new regime could want a new QB)
Broncos (Lock/Teddy and all those offensive weapons going to waste)
Steelers (Ben's gone)
Bears (new regime could want a new QB)
Colts (could be looking to move on from Wentz)
Texans (something's gotta give in H-Town sooner or later)
Jaguars (blue-chip rookie, but new coaching regime)
Falcons (if Matty Ice hangs it up... haven't heard anything about it, but he's gotta be getting close)
Browns (depending on how they really feel about Baker)
Lions (unless they really think Goff is their guy)

Nothing's certain of course, but I'd be surprised if several of these teams didn't show interest in him as an out-right starter for out-right starter pay.
Bears are not giving up on Fields this early. Actually, coaching candidates desire being their HC bc they feel Fields has potential to be a good QB
 
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I hope you’re right, but……
We did call Seattle last offseason and inquire about Russ’s availability and that was when Winston was healthy and under contract. So if CSP was entertaining that idea last year with healthy QBs under contract why wouldn’t he do that now? Did his interest in Russ change? I doubt it, I hope I’m wrong but we shall see.

I’m against the Wilson pursuit but Winston will cost almost the same amount, hell maybe more for 2022 if we re-sign him. Wilson’s cap hit is $19 mil in 2022 and even if he wanted a new contract after the trade Loomis would convert a huge amount to signing bonus to spread the hit out over the duration of his new deal. Heck, there’s a way to re-sign Winston or trade and negotiate a new contract with Wilson but still have their 2022 cap number down to $10-15 mil by getting creative with the bonuses. Which would still leave a good chunk of FA money
Trade capital will also have to be considered a cost
 

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I think this season, Loomis and Payton proved to everyone that they have a good QB room. Jameis could get us deep in the playoffs, no question. I have seen enough.

I love that we have Hill on the team. He is exciting and a winner. Adds so much to our team, including as a QB.

Siemian is capable but not special. Book needs a lot of development. No one knows what's there.

We have too many other needs to mortgage the future of the team on a QB. If we can find a gem in the draft, so be it. Book is not a prototype, and then chances of non-prototypes working out are low.

There is a reason that Brees and Sam Mills (not a QB but roll with me here) are generational players. They don't look like the prototype and they are elite. Don't grow on trees.
 

dtc

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I hope you’re right, but……
We did call Seattle last offseason and inquire about Russ’s availability and that was when Winston was healthy and under contract. So if CSP was entertaining that idea last year with healthy QBs under contract why wouldn’t he do that now? Did his interest in Russ change? I doubt it, I hope I’m wrong but we shall see.

I’m against the Wilson pursuit but Winston will cost almost the same amount, hell maybe more for 2022 if we re-sign him. Wilson’s cap hit is $19 mil in 2022 and even if he wanted a new contract after the trade Loomis would convert a huge amount to signing bonus to spread the hit out over the duration of his new deal. Heck, there’s a way to re-sign Winston or trade and negotiate a new contract with Wilson but still have their 2022 cap number down to $10-15 mil by getting creative with the bonuses. Which would still leave a good chunk of FA money

19m for one year, plus Lattimore and Ramczek, first this year and next is not the same as Winston.

And, a phone call is a whole lot different than an effort to get him.

I also don't think Winston is going to cost anywhere near 20m, but I could be wrong.

Draft capital is more important to us at this point than money. It's the only way we stay competitive moving into the future and we are now looking at another 3-5 years of winning instead of all in for one year like we did with Brees' last couple years.
 

Dallas_Saint73

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If you have Spotify, checkout the "Locked On Saints" podcast hosted by Ross Jackson from Canal Street Chronicles. His latest podcast talks about why we should resign JW and also other FA's such as Armstead, Williams, Kwon, etc.
 
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If you have Spotify, checkout the "Locked On Saints" podcast hosted by Ross Jackson from Canal Street Chronicles. His latest podcast talks about why we should resign JW and also other FA's such as Armstead, Williams, Kwon, etc.
Love Ross! Great podcasts, n he’s very informative!!! U can also check him out on YouTube.

I’m also all in with Jameis. Despite the ACL, Jameis is a tough guy! I’m confident he’s gonna work his tail off to be ready by TC, if not before! But because of his injury, I dont think teams will n breakin down his door with ludicrous contract offers either.

But I also think he wants to stay here! I think he likes it here. He knows the system now. N I think he’s earned the respect of the coaches n his teammates!

Keep in mind too, that he just turned 28. I think he and the Saints can work out some kind of nice three or four year deal (Somewhere between 50- 65 mil depending) At the end, he’ll only be 31 r 32, n he can move on or stay.

We’ll see
 

Dallas_Saint73

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Love Ross! Great podcasts, n he’s very informative!!! U can also check him out on YouTube.

I’m also all in with Jameis. Despite the ACL, Jameis is a tough guy! I’m confident he’s gonna work his tail off to be ready by TC, if not before! But because of his injury, I dont think teams will n breakin down his door with ludicrous contract offers either.

But I also think he wants to stay here! I think he likes it here. He knows the system now. N I think he’s earned the respect of the coaches n his teammates!

Keep in mind too, that he just turned 28. I think he and the Saints can work out some kind of nice three or four year deal (Somewhere between 50- 65 mil depending) At the end, he’ll only be 31 r 32, n he can move on or stay.

We’ll see
Yeah, I stumbled upon the podcast when driving some distance to get my COVID booster and needed something to listen to Saints football-related. I regularly listen now Very informative and great info provided by Ross. A lot of what we discuss on the board he covers in his podcasts. Like potential draft candidates (WR of course), free agency, coaching moves in the offseason, etc.

But yeah, I really feel like we need to give JW a contract and surround him with more weapons. Under Payton, I feel like Winston can become a more disciplined QB. I honestly feel like Winston could outplay someone like Dak in Payton's system given the right weapons- and we all know what kind of numbers Dak has put up for the season.
 
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Yeah, I stumbled upon the podcast when driving some distance to get my COVID booster and needed something to listen to Saints football-related. I regularly listen now Very informative and great info provided by Ross. A lot of what we discuss on the board he covers in his podcasts. Like potential draft candidates (WR of course), free agency, coaching moves in the offseason, etc.

But yeah, I really feel like we need to give JW a contract and surround him with more weapons. Under Payton, I feel like Winston can become a more disciplined QB. I honestly feel like Winston could outplay someone like Dak in Payton's system given the right weapons- and we all know what kind of numbers Dak has put up for the season.
Agree about gettin more weapons esp WR.

First of all, unless he decides to quit ( not likely) I think MT will be back. Can’t trade him cause his contract is so big. Moreover, I think he’ll b ova his lil feelings, n the team will embrace him wen he returns!

Next resign TQS. Like Ross said, he won’t cost much but he also knows the system and is a reliable blocker. Even if he’s the sixth wide receiver he brings value to the team.

Finally, there’s vet FA n/or the draft. We may actually have some money to bring in a decent/good vet WR ( n maybe even a TE).

But to me, this is shaping up to be a pretty good n deep WR group come da Draft! The Saints could actually get a wide receiver that they targeted at 18! And there may still be some good quality left by the time they pick in the second round!

IF we can lock up our vets on D, mainly Quon, Marcus n PJ, I wouldn’t be mad if the Saints went all offense with their first 3 or 4 picks!
 

dtc

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You honestly think they would do that with Russ or Rogers? I don't believe that at all. We can play make-believe because Jameis is not an established tier 1 QB but you don't play those games with a guy like Mahomes or Herbert. I believe the Taysom process ( splash plays and an occasional long throw) was largely a byproduct of Drew's age.

You're flat wrong. Still, Brees was a team first guy. I don't know anything about those other guys, but I don't care. If they're coming to NOLA to play for CSP they're going to stand on the sideline and pretend to be a WR if he tells them to and if they won't they're not coming.

That's the thing that makes us able to win 9 games with 57 starters and it's why CSP is the man.

Subbing Hill for Brees had nothing to do with age and everything to do with forcing the other team to be prepared for more than they wanted to be.
 

No2DC

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You're flat wrong. Still, Brees was a team first guy. I don't know anything about those other guys, but I don't care. If they're coming to NOLA to play for CSP they're going to stand on the sideline and pretend to be a WR if he tells them to and if they won't they're not coming.

That's the thing that makes us able to win 9 games with 57 starters and it's why CSP is the man.

Subbing Hill for Brees had nothing to do with age and everything to do with forcing the other team to be prepared for more than they wanted to be.
I disagree, I think was an age thing. I don't think it would have happened with a younger Drew. He was a team guy but you don't get that great without being a competitor. But hey, that's just my opinion. No other team has done that with an elite QB. Maybe the Nines did a little bit with Young before Montana left but I know of no other examples.
 

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