Gotta Re-sign Jameis at This Point (2 Viewers)

Saintcd

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You're flat wrong. Still, Brees was a team first guy. I don't know anything about those other guys, but I don't care. If they're coming to NOLA to play for CSP they're going to stand on the sideline and pretend to be a WR if he tells them to and if they won't they're not coming.

That's the thing that makes us able to win 9 games with 57 starters and it's why CSP is the man.

Subbing Hill for Brees had nothing to do with age and everything to do with forcing the other team to be prepared for more than they wanted to be.
Even an aging Brees with his whole rib cage broken to hell didn’t pull himself out of the starting role, that’s how much of a competitor he was. But, yeah, he did realize his arm had limitations and hill didn’t sub that much.
 
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I disagree, I think was an age thing.
What are you basing your opinion on?

Payton said that it was about messing with defenses, not a Brees age thing.

The only age issue Brees had was deep passes, so why did Brees throw more deep passes than Hill, if Hill was being used to compensate for Brees's age thing?

Most of Hill's plays from under center were QB running plays, how were those plays because of Brees's age thing? Other than QB sneak leaps and the very rare scramble, Brees never ran the ball, even when he was in his prime.
No other team has done that with an elite QB.
No other team has ever tried an onside kick to start the second half of a Super Bowl either.

Payton does a lot of things that no other coaches do, it's why he has been more successful than most other coaches. Respect and appreciation for Payton's success is why I think most QB's, including HOF ones, would do whatever he asks them to.

Isn't respect and appreciation for Payton's success the reason Winston signed with the Saints twice and has been willing to do whatever Payton asks him to do?
 
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Dallas_Saint73

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Agree about gettin more weapons esp WR.

First of all, unless he decides to quit ( not likely) I think MT will be back. Can’t trade him cause his contract is so big. Moreover, I think he’ll b ova his lil feelings, n the team will embrace him wen he returns!

Next resign TQS. Like Ross said, he won’t cost much but he also knows the system and is a reliable blocker. Even if he’s the sixth wide receiver he brings value to the team.

Finally, there’s vet FA n/or the draft. We may actually have some money to bring in a decent/good vet WR ( n maybe even a TE).

But to me, this is shaping up to be a pretty good n deep WR group come da Draft! The Saints could actually get a wide receiver that they targeted at 18! And there may still be some good quality left by the time they pick in the second round!

IF we can lock up our vets on D, mainly Quon, Marcus n PJ, I wouldn’t be mad if the Saints went all offense with their first 3 or 4 picks!
We may also need to shore up the o-line if we don't resign Armstead.
 

liveoakh

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What are you basing your opinion on?

Payton said that it was about messing with defenses, not a Brees age thing.

The only age issue Brees had was deep passes, so why did Brees throw more deep passes than Hill, if Hill was being used to compensate for Brees's age thing?

No other team has ever tried an onside kick to start the second half of a Super Bowl either.

Payton does a lot of things that no other coaches do, it's why he has been more successful than most other coaches. Respect and appreciation for Payton's success is why I think most QB's, including HOF ones, would do whatever he asks them to.

Isn't respect and appreciation for Payton's success the reason Winston signed with the Saints twice and has been willing to do whatever Payton asks him to do?
I always believed Sean really used Taysom for short yardage. The running game was so bad at times, Drew had to QB sneak every time we needed a 1st down or goal line. Taysom was used in his first few yrs as a designated runner. He would come in when we would get into sticking points, or needed a spark. It wasn't Drew's arm Taysom was supplementing, it was the hit's from the short yardage work. That is how Sean was extending Drew's career.
 
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I always believed Sean really used Taysom for short yardage. The running game was so bad at times, Drew had to QB sneak every time we needed a 1st down or goal line. Taysom was used in his first few yrs as a designated runner. He would come in when we would get into sticking points, or needed a spark. It wasn't Drew's arm Taysom was supplementing, it was the hit's from the short yardage work. That is how Sean was extending Drew's career.
Most of Hill's running plays out of the QB position needed more than a yard for a first down or to score. Brees never attempted a QB sneak when it was more than a yard to go.

Payton said himself on several occasions, he used Hill at QB to give the defense a lot more to prepare for.

Was Payton protecting Winston or compensating for Winston's weaknesses when he subbed out Winston for Hill this past season?
 
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We may also need to shore up the o-line if we don't resign Armstead.
Agreed

He’s hell wen he’s well, but from wat I’ve read, he may have surgery ( on his knee?) this offseason. Given his age n injury history, I jus don’t see teams breaking down da door for him.

Unless the Saints sign a LT in vet FA, I hope he n da Saints can work out a deal to keep him here for another couple of years til we can find n groom his replacement.

Jus a thought
 

No2DC

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What are you basing your opinion on?

Payton said that it was about messing with defenses, not a Brees age thing.

The only age issue Brees had was deep passes, so why did Brees throw more deep passes than Hill, if Hill was being used to compensate for Brees's age thing?

Most of Hill's plays from under center were QB running plays, how were those plays because of Brees's age thing? Other than QB sneak leaps and the very rare scramble, Brees never ran the ball, even when he was in his prime.

No other team has ever tried an onside kick to start the second half of a Super Bowl either.

Payton does a lot of things that no other coaches do, it's why he has been more successful than most other coaches. Respect and appreciation for Payton's success is why I think most QB's, including HOF ones, would do whatever he asks them to.

Isn't respect and appreciation for Payton's success the reason Winston signed with the Saints twice and has been willing to do whatever Payton asks him to do?
This is being taken out of context now. My initial response was to the suggestion that he should come in and throw the ball more and I have mentioned several times other teams have plays designed for playmakers, so Hill coming in for a QB sneak or run is nothing odd. Payton's success as a coach has nothing to do with my statement that no other teams rotate QBs throwing the ball. Taysom started throwing long attempts as Drew's arm got weaker. That is an age correlation. Yes, Paton is one of the longest-tenured and winningest coaches in the league but so are Bellicheck, Tomlin, and Reid. They do not rotate QBs but they may snap the ball to a playmaker like Hill or Kelce in KC.
 

dtc

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Even an aging Brees with his whole rib cage broken to hell didn’t pull himself out of the starting role, that’s how much of a competitor he was. But, yeah, he did realize his arm had limitations and hill didn’t sub that much.

It had nothign to do with arm. Brees threw better deep even last year than Hill ever has. It had to do with mismatches and Hill's x factor where you just don't know whether you have to defend the run or pass.
 

El Caliente

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It’s an interesting take, the whole “Taysom subbing in for the starter is a problem, and a turn off to guys wanting to play quarterback in New Orleans.” I say this because this past season (when Taysom came in at spot duty at quarterback he wasn’t taking very many passing plays away from the starting quarterback. When he came in the plays were almost always running plays.

He took 28 snaps under center during weeks 1-5, 9, and 10 (weeks he wasn’t the starter), and of those 28 snaps, 20 were run plays, with only 8 being pass plays. So 71% of his snaps were run plays. He is a joker, or to put a finer point on it, he is a power back that plays quarterback. The sprinkled in pass plays are a necessity in keeping the defense from crowding the box.

A starting quarterback isn’t going to feel threatened or turned off if the team decides to hand the ball off to the running back or full back, so why would they feel threatened or turned off if the team designs a run play for their backup?
 

sfidc3

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I disagree, I think was an age thing. I don't think it would have happened with a younger Drew. He was a team guy but you don't get that great without being a competitor. But hey, that's just my opinion. No other team has done that with an elite QB. Maybe the Nines did a little bit with Young before Montana left but I know of no other examples.

I'm in firm agreement with DTC, which means I totally disagree with above...No other team attempted (and succeeded) an on-side kick to open the 2nd half of a SB either....just sayin....(I see SS beat me to the punch on this one)....
 
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I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. When Brees' capabilities declined, and I wholeheartedly disagree that his (Brees') deep ball was effective in his last season, Taysom's use increased, but initially Taysom was brought on to augment the offense separately from what we were doing w/ Brees and it had little to do with age.

But now, I feel the gig is up, I want to get back to 2009-2013 levels of offensive output attacking all levels of the defensive secondary, this TH stuff is a distraction and pretty predictable when used in a game. Sure it'll get you 3-7 yards every once in a while, and an occasional 3rd and 2, but it also get's stuffed at times on 3rd and short because everyone knows it's coming.
 

No2DC

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It’s an interesting take, the whole “Taysom subbing in for the starter is a problem, and a turn off to guys wanting to play quarterback in New Orleans.” I say this because this past season (when Taysom came in at spot duty at quarterback he wasn’t taking very many passing plays away from the starting quarterback. When he came in the plays were almost always running plays.

He took 28 snaps under center during weeks 1-5, 9, and 10 (weeks he wasn’t the starter), and of those 28 snaps, 20 were run plays, with only 8 being pass plays. So 71% of his snaps were run plays. He is a joker, or to put a finer point on it, he is a power back that plays quarterback. The sprinkled in pass plays are a necessity in keeping the defense from crowding the box.

A starting quarterback isn’t going to feel threatened or turned off if the team decides to hand the ball off to the running back or full back, so why would they feel threatened or turned off if the team designs a run play for their backup?
Is that the lead singer from Queen on top someone dressed as Darth Vader? Those plays are no different than a direct snap to Adams in GB or Hill in KC, so a QB would not be turned off by that the throwing part may be a problem for Rogers or Russ.
 

El Caliente

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Is that the lead singer from Queen on top someone dressed as Darth Vader? Those plays are no different than a direct snap to Adams in GB or Hill in KC, so a QB would not be turned off by that the throwing part may be a problem for Rogers or Russ.
It is indeed (Freddie Mercury on the shoulders of Darth Vader).

I understand the lack of appeal (for an incoming quarterback or Jameis) in allowing Taysom to throw one pass a game, but it’s only one pass, he isn’t stealing their ability to be playmakers with the ball, if anything he is preventing them from taking an extra hit a game behind this oline.
 

St. Widge

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It’s an interesting take, the whole “Taysom subbing in for the starter is a problem, and a turn off to guys wanting to play quarterback in New Orleans.” I say this because this past season (when Taysom came in at spot duty at quarterback he wasn’t taking very many passing plays away from the starting quarterback. When he came in the plays were almost always running plays.

He took 28 snaps under center during weeks 1-5, 9, and 10 (weeks he wasn’t the starter), and of those 28 snaps, 20 were run plays, with only 8 being pass plays. So 71% of his snaps were run plays. He is a joker, or to put a finer point on it, he is a power back that plays quarterback. The sprinkled in pass plays are a necessity in keeping the defense from crowding the box.

A starting quarterback isn’t going to feel threatened or turned off if the team decides to hand the ball off to the running back or full back, so why would they feel threatened or turned off if the team designs a run play for their backup?

What I find interesting is that his is how people used to think of the starting RB role. Guys only wanted to go places where they would get 20 to 30 carries for game and never left the field. It was odd when teams would give a #2 RB any snaps where the starter wasn't injured or completely winded.

Now, "running back by committee" and "third down backs" are just normal and every team does it to some extent. RBs now like it because it extends their career when there is another guy that can carry the load and limit there touches per game.

I wonder if that isn't the future at QB? It will take awhile, but running QBs like Hill or Tebow prior to him that were great runners, but limited in the passing game, tend to either be moved to another position, sit on the bench, or end up out of the NFL now. Hill is the exception, but really only because Payton is innovative and wanted to use those running skills while he tried to develop him as a passer.

So, maybe that's the future just like the current system was the future at RB. You have lots of college QBs that are great runners but limited passers. That's obviously and issue as a starting QB in addition to running QBs being injury risks. But, maybe in the future teams will have a Read Option QB on the roster as a specialist to run some plays or take a drive to get the defense out of rhythm and make them prepare for something else.

Of course, Cordell Stewart was used in similar ways, but it didn't lead to a revolution in the use of running QBs. But, it just seems like a natural progression to me.
 

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Assuming all healing goes well, the line-up I like for next year is:

QB-1 Jameis Winston
QB-2 Taysom Hill (subbing in and joker roles)
QB-3 Blake Bortles (Gameday Backup and Scout Teams)
QB-4 Ian Book (Practice Squad?)

And I definitely want a full schedule of those quarterback challenge videos come training camp.
 

El Caliente

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But now, I feel the gig is up, I want to get back to 2009-2013 levels of offensive output attacking all levels of the defensive secondary, this TH stuff is a distraction and pretty predictable when used in a game. Sure it'll get you 3-7 yards every once in a while, and an occasional 3rd and 2, but it also get's stuffed at times on 3rd and short because everyone knows it's coming.
You are describing a run game. Hills snaps are an extension of the run game.
 

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