Gotta Re-sign Jameis at This Point (4 Viewers)

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My point about the Brees, Bush, Sproles, PT offense is to point out that we don’t do conventional offense (like using Taysom isn’t conventional). This is New Orleans baby, there isn’t anything conventional about anything in this place.

There is nothing to get frothy about with Hill’s usage. Its a positive far more than a negative. There is plenty of room in this offense for folks to eat, everyone can shine.
I want a return to being the offensive juggernaut we were in the early '10s, 'member dat (yeah I 'member). Sean's playcalling has gotten hella stale and I'm certain that if we get rid of the binky that we go back to not relying on a single player to be the catalyst of our offense. His system works best when everyone is eating...not when we're sputtering along waiting for a gadget player to provide a spark on a 5 yard plunge into the back of the Oline.

Ultimately I think we all want the same thing, we just have differing opinions on how we get there. I don't hate Hill....I'm just not a fan of that type of offense.
 

El Caliente

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I want a return to being the offensive juggernaut we were in the early '10s, 'member dat (yeah I 'member). Sean's playcalling has gotten hella stale and I'm certain that if we get rid of the binky that we go back to not relying on a single player to be the catalyst of our offense. His system works best when everyone is eating...not when we're sputtering along waiting for a gadget player to provide a spark on a 5 yard plunge into the back of the Oline.

Ultimately I think we all want the same thing, we just have differing opinions on how we get there. I don't hate Hill....I'm just not a fan of that type of offense.
Until you have talent on the team like we had during those dominant days you have to find ways to get the offense to work. I am not going to be upset with a guy who averages 5.8 yards per touch. Of the guys on our team with more than 50 touches this season, Taysom had the most yards per touch. Pardon those of us who are focusing our ire in other directions.
 

No2DC

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I don't understand why the media keep hyping him so high. Didn't we learn anything from Trey Lance? Small school QB won't be ready year one and NFL teams won't just burddog physical talent in the top 10 like that anymore.

1st round physical talent with a 5th round resume. And I want Willis badly, but his floor is crazy low.
It's a weak class, and QBs go first. I wonder how many of these guys would have had 1st round grades last year?
 

Judge_Smails

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A starting quarterback isn’t going to feel threatened or turned off if the team decides to hand the ball off to the running back or full back, so why would they feel threatened or turned off if the team designs a run play for their backup?
I get your point, but it’s because the starter wants to be under center, running the offense and potentially checking out of the called RB/FB run when he sees the D exposed to the pass presnap.

How many big plays and TDs did Brees create by checking out of run plays? We’ll never know the exact number, but A LOT would be an accurate answer, I bet.

Even the play that a lot of Saints fans think secured the starting position for JW in the preseason game against Jax, was a called run that Winston audibles out of because he saw press man outside and a zero safety look.

How many times has Sean let Taysom audible out of QB power when he was inserted to run that play? None is my guess.

Not saying I don’t ever want Hill taking snaps from QB1, but to say there is no valid reason for QB1 to not like it is inaccurate.
 

Taker597

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It's a weak class, and QBs go first. I wonder how many of these guys would have had 1st round grades last year?
So, which terrible franchise drafts him top ten?

I can understand the back end of the 1st round, because there aren't any 1st round prospects in the back end of the 1st round except in elite classes like 2017.
 

St. Widge

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How many times has Sean let Taysom audible out of QB power when he was inserted to run that play? None is my guess.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't believe that Payton would totally take the option to audible away from the QB, certainly not this year. But, it does raise the question of if Hill did have the green light to audible, why did he seem to never do it out of QB Power? My guess is that he never really felt comfortable throwing the ball in the NFL.

But, I will say that as others have said, Hill looked like a different QB before he got hurt against Atlanta in the last game. The light seemed to go on for him. I don't think it was the starting QB light, but I think it was the good backup QB light.
 

St. Widge

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So, which terrible franchise drafts him top ten?

I can understand the back end of the 1st round, because there aren't any 1st round prospects in the back end of the 1st round except in elite classes like 2017.

I've seen stuff projecting him to the Panthers at 10. It seems crazy to me, but I'd love the idea of that happening and frankly Rhule and their GM have to be desperate to do something to turn it around or they are gone after next year. That can prompt a team to take a crazy risk on a guy with a really low floor and really high ceiling like a small school QB.
 

Judge_Smails

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't believe that Payton would totally take the option to audible away from the QB, certainly not this year. But, it does raise the question of if Hill did have the green light to audible, why did he seem to never do it? My guess is that he never really felt comfortable throwing the ball in the NFL.

But, I will say that as others have said, Hill looked like a different QB before he got hurt against Atlanta in the last game. The light seemed to go on for him. I don't think it was the starting QB light, but I think it was the good backup QB light.
I am sure Hill has the leeway to change the play when he is actually working as QB1, but when he is inserted in place of QB1, specifically to run one play that has mostly been QB power, I’ve never seen him kill that play and go to something else. And when he’s been similarly inserted to throw for one play, I’ve never seen him kill that play.
 

Taker597

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I've seen stuff projecting him to the Panthers at 10. It seems crazy to me, but I'd love the idea of that happening and frankly Rhule and their GM have to be desperate to do something to turn it around or they are gone after next year. That can prompt a team to take a crazy risk on a guy with a really low floor and really high ceiling like a small school QB.
Carolina, Rhule, and Willis... Yeah... I'm going to press X to doubt on that.


I can see them drafting Pickett or Coral if they go QB.
 

Judge_Smails

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Carolina, Rhule, and Willis... Yeah... I'm going to press X to doubt on that.


I can see them drafting Pickett or Coral if they go QB.
Saints Dline would probably end Corrall’s career in year 1. He is slight of size and takes a lot of hits. Not a good formula against an elite pash rushing Dline that you face twice a year. Bucs would mess him up as well.
 
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This is being taken out of context now. My initial response was to the suggestion that he should come in and throw the ball more...
The only thing that's out of context is that I made any suggestion that Hill "should" throw the ball more.

Payton said himself that he gave Hill's those snaps, including passing snaps, to stress opposing defenses.

It's not true that Taysom started throwing long attempts as Drew's arm got weaker. Drew attempted more long passes than Hill. Hill did not attempt many long passes. Most of Hill's pass attempts were less than 20 yards. A lot of Hill's passes were inside the red zone. Brees had plenty of arm strength to make all of those passes.

Payton didn't use Hill to make passes that Brees couldn't, that just doesn't reflect what actually happened. Payton subbed in Hill for Winston this year to throw some passes. Did Payton sub Hill in for Winston because Winston's arm got weaker or because Hill could make throws that Winston couldn't?

If Hill is not the starting QB, unless Payton completely changes his coaching philosophy and strategy, then he will most likely continue to give Hill some QB snaps, just like he has for the past 3 seasons.

Since he does it to give defenses a lot to prepare for and Hill was throwing the ball well in his last game, then it's likely that he'll increase the number and variety of passing plays that he calls for Hill, to give defenses that much more to prepare for.

None of that is me saying Payton "should" have Hill throw the ball more. I'm saying that based on what we've seen and heard from Payton over the last few years, I think he's going to keep adding to what he has Hill do when he subs him in at QB.
 

El Caliente

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I get your point, but it’s because the starter wants to be under center, running the offense and potentially checking out of the called RB/FB run when he sees the D exposed to the pass presnap.

How many big plays and TDs did Brees create by checking out of run plays? We’ll never know the exact number, but A LOT would be an accurate answer, I bet.

Even the play that a lot of Saints fans think secured the starting position for JW in the preseason game against Jax, was a called run that Winston audibles out of because he saw press man outside and a zero safety look.

How many times has Sean let Taysom audible out of QB power when he was inserted to run that play? None is my guess.

Not saying I don’t ever want Hill taking snaps from QB1, but to say there is no valid reason for QB1 to not like it is inaccurate.
I understand your point about the feelings of guys trying to get their numbers, but someone can get me 5.3 yards per run, then heck with someone caught up in their feelings to the point where they can’t sacrifice a play or 4 a game for us to get a near certain 5.3 yards.

I think better of Drew and Jameis (or Rodgers and Wilson) than to think they are that petty to put their own stats ahead of the team.
 

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The only thing that's out of context is that I made any suggestion that Hill "should" throw the ball more.

Payton said himself that he gave Hill's those snaps, including passing snaps, to stress opposing defenses.

It's not true that Taysom started throwing long attempts as Drew's arm got weaker. Drew attempted more long passes than Hill. Hill did not attempt many long passes. Most of Hill's pass attempts were less than 20 yards. A lot of Hill's passes were inside the red zone. Brees had plenty of arm strength to make all of those passes.

Payton didn't use Hill to make passes that Brees couldn't, that just doesn't reflect what actually happened. Payton subbed in Hill for Winston this year to throw some passes. Did Payton sub Hill in for Winston because Winston's arm got weaker or because Hill could make throws that Winston couldn't?

If Hill is not the starting QB, unless Payton completely changes his coaching philosophy and strategy, then he will most likely continue to give Hill some QB snaps, just like he has for the past 3 seasons.

Since he does it to give defenses a lot to prepare for and Hill was throwing the ball well in his last game, then it's likely that he'll increase the number and variety of passing plays that he calls for Hill, to give defenses that much more to prepare for.

None of that is me saying Payton "should" have Hill throw the ball more. I'm saying that based on what we've seen and heard from Payton over the last few years, I think he's going to keep adding to what he has Hill do when he subs him in at QB.
Are you confident Hill fully recovers from his foot injuries and can be ready by camp, game 1, or any point this season?

I feel like if anyone could he is one of those guys, but it’s no sure thing his wheels will ever be as good as they were during the the last game right?
 

St. Widge

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I am sure Hill has the leeway to change the play when he is actually working as QB1, but when he is inserted in place of QB1, specifically to run one play that has mostly been QB power, I’ve never seen him kill that play and go to something else. And when he’s been similarly inserted to throw for one play, I’ve never seen him kill that play.

Yeah, I was talking about this year when Payton would seemingly decide it was time for Hill to run QB Power for a series. I don't think Hill ever audibled out of it and I would have to guess there were situation where he could have made some plays by making an audible to a pass play out of that look. But, it is possible that when he wasn't QB 1 Payton would not let him audible out of QB Power. But it seems odd to put a guy on the field if you trust him that little.
 

Judge_Smails

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I understand your point about the feelings of guys trying to get their numbers, but someone can get me 5.3 yards per run, then heck with someone caught up in their feelings to the point where they can’t sacrifice a play or 4 a game for us to get a near certain 5.3 yards.

I think better of Drew and Jameis (or Rodgers and Wilson) than to think they are that petty to put their own stats ahead of the team.
It’s not about QB1 getting numbers. It’s about the QB that is the “man” getting his team into the best play, every play. Some of the QB power calls Hill got stuffed on were probably against defensive alignments that were susceptible to something as simple as an audible to simple option route to AK from the same formation. But when TH is inserted to run that one play there is never an audible.

It’s probably why Drew always had that constipated look on his face when he got taken out of the game. It eliminates your best QB from using his superior ability to dissect the D before the snap.
 

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