Great Article on Sacks from Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

WoW so now we are comparing Hicks to the most athletic and best DT in the NFL in Ngata? Is this a joke? We will be lucky if he turns out to be a good NT much less playing out of position at DE. Say all you want about guys 300 plus playing end and that's fine. Does not mean he will be one at all. He is nothing like Ngata in anyway! Guy can be a beast and that's at NT. Can he play some DE in certain formations? I would hope so but like I said he is a prototype NT in a 3-4. I guess we will see what RR thinks about this. Only time will tell and I will remember your prediction of DE because I will guarantee and put anything up that he is not. It's more likely he has been putting on weight hat losing weight. When Sean P decided to make the move I would bet a big reason was he already has his NT in Hicks not his other DE. People want to talk about Smith not being able to beat someone 1 on 1 in a 4-3 so why would he be good in a 3-4? Go put Hicks at DE in a 4-3 and see how effective he is. If you ask me W. Smith is way more suited at a 3-4 end where he is not asked to beat the LT to the outside every single play. He will now be able to play with his natural weight and strength instead of losing. Go look at Justin Smiths production in a 4-3 he was about to be out of the league. Now he has been a perennial pro bowler in a 3-4 and doesn't look like he's slowing down at 34. Smith has a chance to make an impact at DE I'm the 3-4 similar to his. Not saying he will be as good but he will be our best DE for the spot. I have been no Smith fan the past few years but have always wanted him in a 3-4. I would bet I'm not the only one who thinks this. RR, Sean P, and Mickey will also be in the same boat with many others on this board. Hicks will not be a DE by the way but our stud NT.
Dude, I said Hicks isn't in Ngata's universe - go back and read. My point was, and I said it, is that he should be used like him. Your only making it worse. Stop.
 
Lol i believe u on hicks...I'm just making a call for depth.

Im not sure if it was that particular interview but Payton did say "The 3-4 will be akin to what you saw in Dallas/Houston" or something to that effect but those were the two teams he mentioned. This is an assumption but i don't think Dallas 1 gapped much under Ryan. Thus is why Ratliff's #'s went down...especially when Josh Brent wen't out and he didn't have a tag team partner.

So it leads me to believe that Payton after talking to Bill Parcells knows that it takes 2 years to make the full transition.

Right now our best bet is two 1 gap.


So with that line of thinking to have Hicks/Bunkley swap out @ NT with hicks possibly backing up the Two End positions for another year allows us to get the most out of our current roster. As of right now we have two 1 gap NT's. Take hicks out and we only have 1.


Also like i said just because Hicks plays NT in the base set doesn't mean he won't get moved around and play techniques in different fronts.

In our nickel package u could have a tandem of Junior/Jordan/Hicks/Wilson. Which in this case HIcks WOULD be playing the 3tech position...so its not that im just pidgeon holing him...im trying to give a general vision of our base defense.

If you play Hicks in that role then he will still end up seeing more snaps than bunkley. So hes on the field a lot...STILL.


Back on the subject. If we are thinking for long term vision here Id have Hicks for depth and rotating in with Bunkley until we can get a real 2 gap NT.

Again keying in on Payton the easiest way to make this transition is to 1 gap@ first...but it doens't mean we will just be a 1 gap defense in the future. We are just working with what we have right now.

Season after next when guys like Will Smith and Vilma are gone and we have a 2 gapper @ NT then i can see us making the transition to 2gapping while moving hicks to RDE.



Just from my point of view to make our transition easire and now to have as many questions about depth and where guys fit..u just fit them to what they were doing last year in the 4-3 which is

Hicks Bunks 1tech
Jordan 5 tech/3tech
Will Smith played those techniques under 3G
Walker/Johnson can definitely play the 3tech..but as of right now they are more nickel players
Bunk can backup the 5tech.


If you take the above all of your bases are covered. You don't have to spend a HIGH draft pick on the Dline if you don't want to because u have adequate depth/starters@ every position.

Everything you said is pretty dead on to me. Hicks can play other spots of course but he will be used as a NT. only thing I disagree with is that he will be our backup DE also. I think we will bring someone in through draft or FA to be that guy. NT is hard enough to play and I don't think we give him all of these responsibilities to learn. He is our future NT and a big reason we made the Switch to me. Hicks and Jordan will play the most important position on the line. Not saying the other DE spot is a need but the 2nd DE to me is the 5th least important in the front 7.. I would say DE/NT/ILB/OLB/DE/OLB/ILB.. Bunkley will be more of a rotated at DE than Hicks.
 
Dude, I said Hicks isn't in Ngata's universe - go back and read. My point was, and I said it, is that he should be used like him. Your only making it worse. Stop.

Ok if he's not in his universe then he should not be used like him! Ngata is 1 of very few that does what he does. Hicks is nothing like him in anyway. Ngata moves like a freaking LB and could probably play that if he wanted to. He is so versatile he can play anything in the line. Hicks is very talented but we won't give him more responsibilities then what he already has. Like I said NT is hard enough and we better hope he becomes what we think he will be which is no guarantee. I will guarantee he plays 90% NT for us.
 
For the most part Hicks would likely stay at nose, he is our main interior pass rush threat, not saying he wouldn't move around because I believe he will for the sake of causing disruptions. He is definitely versatile enough to play anywhere.
 
For the most part Hicks would likely stay at nose, he is our main interior pass rush threat, not saying he wouldn't move around because I believe he will for the sake of causing disruptions. He is definitely versatile enough to play anywhere.

I agree but also disagree. He will probably be asked to add a little more weight to anchor the middle. He's is very athletic for his size but not so much for a DE. The reason he is so valuable because he can play heavy and be as athletic as any DT his size. He doesn't have what it takes to play the DE unless he cut a lot of weight and probably got down to around 300. Could he play some DE? Like I said of course. but he would be average at best there when he could be a pro bowl NT. If he's not at nose he loses to me what his strengths are. The guy is listed at 325 and I would bet he is a good 10 lbs heavier than that.
 
I'll pay you green thumbs for it :9:

Coaches tape is all of a sudden not letting me skip to specific plays in whatever quarter I want - which means I'll have to watch a game up to that play to get there. If I can't get them to fix it, I'll just use regular footage for the post. Still should get the point across.
Should be done soon.
 
Lol i believe u on hicks...I'm just making a call for depth.

Im not sure if it was that particular interview but Payton did say "The 3-4 will be akin to what you saw in Dallas/Houston" or something to that effect but those were the two teams he mentioned. This is an assumption but i don't think Dallas 1 gapped much under Ryan. Thus is why Ratliff's #'s went down...especially when Josh Brent wen't out and he didn't have a tag team partner.

So it leads me to believe that Payton after talking to Bill Parcells knows that it takes 2 years to make the full transition.

Right now our best bet is two 1 gap.


So with that line of thinking to have Hicks/Bunkley swap out @ NT with hicks possibly backing up the Two End positions for another year allows us to get the most out of our current roster. As of right now we have two 1 gap NT's. Take hicks out and we only have 1.


Also like i said just because Hicks plays NT in the base set doesn't mean he won't get moved around and play techniques in different fronts.

In our nickel package u could have a tandem of Junior/Jordan/Hicks/Wilson. Which in this case HIcks WOULD be playing the 3tech position...so its not that im just pidgeon holing him...im trying to give a general vision of our base defense.

If you play Hicks in that role then he will still end up seeing more snaps than bunkley. So hes on the field a lot...STILL.


Back on the subject. If we are thinking for long term vision here Id have Hicks for depth and rotating in with Bunkley until we can get a real 2 gap NT.

Again keying in on Payton the easiest way to make this transition is to 1 gap@ first...but it doens't mean we will just be a 1 gap defense in the future. We are just working with what we have right now.

Season after next when guys like Will Smith and Vilma are gone and we have a 2 gapper @ NT then i can see us making the transition to 2gapping while moving hicks to RDE.



Just from my point of view to make our transition easire and now to have as many questions about depth and where guys fit..u just fit them to what they were doing last year in the 4-3 which is

Hicks Bunks 1tech
Jordan 5 tech/3tech
Will Smith played those techniques under 3G
Walker/Johnson can definitely play the 3tech..but as of right now they are more nickel players
Hicks can play every position on the line in THIS style of 3-4.


If you take the above all of your bases are covered. You don't have to spend a HIGH draft pick on the Dline if you don't want to because u have adequate depth/starters@ every position.

Instead of grabbing someone like Brandon Williams in the 3rd. We can grab a guy like Montori Hughes/or Robert Geathers in the 5th or later and bring them along slowly as the 3rd NT.

Remove hicks from that equation and now you have Bunkley and a rookie manning the NT position possibly having to sign a NT in FA. I just don't feel good abou tthat when the 2nd guy in rotation for all intents and purposes can be hicks in the base set.
Yeah, I agree that we need depth. I think Johnson is good depth for us, I won't believe in Walker until I see him play against NFL starters - Will Smith could be depth also because I think Hicks is on the field.

I disagree with you on the nickel package. I think Hicks is your early down 3-tech (I made that case here:http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/akeem-hicks-case-playing-3-4-de-288370/#.UTALmlfjF48) and Bunkley is your early down nose. Bunkley comes off the field during nickel - like he did last year and the year before in Denver - and Hicks slides to DT and becomes a one-gap penetrator. Also, on nickel downs, your front changes anyway so I'm not sure how Rob Ryan is going to handle that. Heck, I even say Ryan run a 2-man front on early run downs.

I'm not sure why you would need a 2-gap NT for what Ryan wants to do. Ratliff isn't a 2-gapper. Bunkley can cover the A-gap and occupy the guard and the center, from there it's one blocker per lineman per gap. There aren't many 2-gap NTs in the NFL right now to be honest.

At the end of the day, I just don't understand having your most versatile defensive lineman and potentially most talented guy be a "depth guy" just because we don't have a backup NT. You can sign a backup NT off the streets and handle injuries as they come, because they will come. I just can't justify playing Will Smith (or anyone else on our roster) over Hicks and 3-tech, especially since I've seen Hicks play the 3-tech spot and be dominant.
 
Ok if he's not in his universe then he should not be used like him! Ngata is 1 of very few that does what he does. Hicks is nothing like him in anyway. Ngata moves like a freaking LB and could probably play that if he wanted to. He is so versatile he can play anything in the line. Hicks is very talented but we won't give him more responsibilities then what he already has. Like I said NT is hard enough and we better hope he becomes what we think he will be which is no guarantee. I will guarantee he plays 90% NT for us.
Do you know if Hicks has ever played 3-tech?
 
Good stuff. Add in the competition faced, percentage vs pass, etc, etc and it shows how clearly Mingo is the favorite.
 
I really hope we take mingo at 15 or trade down and grab someone like okafor and desmond trufant in the 2nd, but as long as we get jordan mingo jordan or okafor im happy
 
I don't know what the coaches are thinking, but I do think we pick up a NT in the later rounds, for a few reasons, 1. the saints did talk to a few, 2. this draft has quite a few available 3. we need to get one to bring into camp to compete even if we have both already on the roster, in case one gets hurt or doesn't work out.

Oh, LOVE Okafor , hope we get him some how.I think he can play OLB
 
I don't know what the coaches are thinking, but I do think we pick up a NT in the later rounds, for a few reasons, 1. the saints did talk to a few, 2. this draft has quite a few available 3. we need to get one to bring into camp to compete even if we have both already on the roster, in case one gets hurt or doesn't work out.

Oh, LOVE Okafor , hope we get him some how.I think he can play OLB
Looking at those number do make you go and look back at Okafor.
 

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