Great Article on Sacks from Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

[DaDomePatrol]

Can people please stop saying Hicks will be a 3-4 DE. The guy is 6'6 350 so I don't know what the hell makes anyone think this. He was a NT when we drafted him. Say Hayensworth but that's because he was overpriced and didn't wanna be a clog in the middle because he is selfish. Hicks is everything you want in a 3-4 nose and more. No way he plays DE unless he lose about 40 lbs!

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Can people please stop saying Hicks will be a 3-4 DE. The guy is 6'6 350 so I don't know what the hell makes anyone think this. He was a NT when we drafted him. Say Hayensworth but that's because he was overpriced and didn't wanna be a clog in the middle because he is selfish. Hicks is everything you want in a 3-4 nose and more. No way he plays DE unless he lose about 40 lbs!

What are you talking about? Hicks is 6-5 about 320-325 pounds. He could easily get around 310 and be a 3-4 DE. Other than pure nose, he can play any position on the defensive line.

I'd do research and understand what I'm talking about before running into a thread throwing around incorrect information if I were you.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

That i did notice..so it's not like a guy is designated to one side all the time.

Exactly, I usually just say strongside or weakside but it depend. I would project Cam to the strongside of a formation. He has two-gap and one-gap experience so his versatility is key for us.

 

[DaDomePatrol]

What are you talking about? Hicks is 6-5 about 320-325 pounds. He could easily get around 310 and be a 3-4 DE. Other than pure nose, he can play any position on the defensive line.

I'd do research and understand what I'm talking about before running into a thread throwing around incorrect information if I were you.

Seriously what am I talking about? What are you talking about? When has the guy played DE? You are purely projecting him. I will be you anything you want he plays NT and that's it. Smith and Jordan are the DEs and we will find depth for them. We have no true NT except for Hicks who is a prototype nose. Please tell me you LT basis for Hicks at DE and who he even compares to? He is much bigger than 325 so sorry I said 6'6 your a joke.

 

[DaDomePatrol]

What are you talking about? Hicks is 6-5 about 320-325 pounds. He could easily get around 310 and be a 3-4 DE. Other than pure nose, he can play any position on the defensive line.

I'd do research and understand what I'm talking about before running into a thread throwing around incorrect information if I were you.

I would think it's more likely he has been putting on weight the. Shedding it like you think. Norman Hand and Grady Jackson should have shed weight to play LB. hell maybe Smith sheds weight and plays OLB.

 

[LSSpam]

Exactly, I usually just say strongside or weakside but it depend. I would project Cam to the strongside of a formation. He has two-gap and one-gap experience so his versatility is key for us.

Some teams tie the personal to the offensive formation, some tie it to specific sides of the field. Depends on coaches preference and the needs of the personal available. Particularly with cornerbacks, for instance, it's a lot easier to teach technique and get consistently sound play if they're sticking to just one sideline. But if you have an elite boundary CB who allows you to roll your coverage consistently to one side, maybe you move him around with the best WR It's all much more malleable then we give it credit for on forums.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

I was more or less comparing it to the diagram that Inside Job posted. Its slightly different than the Texans base/LSSpam illustration. Yet its still labeled an under.

As far as hicks...Its the fact that if you place him@ 5 and will is no longer a starter then you have to hope that he can replace the veteran savvy that Will Has. Even if our Base is Smith/Bunk/Jordan with Hicks having the ability to backup all 3.

Having Hicks in on rotation means he can provide depth accross the whole front...but specifically@ NT behind bunk.

Im sure the coaches will put him in the best position to succeed but when i think of the podcast i was listening to one of the Writers mentioned "the saints felt they had their two NT's in house" The only 2 guys i can think of are the same 2 guys who played the position last year. Bunk/Hicks So thats what im basing my conclusion off...not that i don't think Hicks should or can't play one of the End's.

Whats interesting is the different forms of the 3-4 under. Payton said we would be similar to Dallas/Houston (under phillips) but he didn't say exactly so it will be interesting to see what kind of wrinkles.



Also all of the articles that ive read especially when Rob first got to Dallas was that his scheme especially the run fits was different from Wades. Which from my thoughts means he 2gapped a little more.


What will be interesting is how much input Payton put in on this. Ryan due to payton could be coming up with a whole new 1gap scheme that he has never ran anywhere else just to fit our talents. Which has me giddy about it.

IF thats the case even though it will be similar in 1 gapping to Houston maybe the alignment will be different?

I was talking about playing Hicks at 3-tech but I think he can play 5-tech also. The only reason I'd start Smith over Hicks is if Hick has some problem picking up the scheme, and we have no proof that it will be the case. You say Smith is a savvy vet and I agree, but tell me how that has translated to him beating offensive lineman 1on1 . If you can't win 1on1 in the NFL, then you can't really help your team. Mediocrity won't cut it this time around - being in position isn't enough.

Hicks does not belong in a rotation, he needs to be starting. Last year, the game film proves that Hicks needs to be starting, no backing up some unproductive defensive lineman whose best days are behind him. I can't stress this point enough, the kid has the ability to dominate, he can't do that from the sidelines.

As for having two NTs, I think thats partially correct. Bunkley is a pure shaded nose, nothing else. That's what he does and he's great at it. Hick isn't that type of player. Even though he isn't in his universe "yet lol" think of using Hicks how the Ravens use Ngata. Dude lines up at 3-tech, 5-tech, etc. There isn't a position on the d-line where he can't line up and it's all based on getting him a matchup that he can win. I'm not sure what podcast you were listening to, but if they think of Hicks as only a NT, then I'd question how much they have actually studied the player.

As for the 3-4 Under, I remember that Payton interview. You right in that he said we'll be running a Under version of the 3-4, but he didn't mention which particular scheme. To be honest, I'm willing to be that that process is still on-going...and thats a good thing. Ryan most likely has a general concept of what he wants to run but he'll have to see how the pieces fit. Seattle for example runs a 4-3 Under with Red Byrant, Alan Branch, and Brandon Mebane - all three of those guys are DTs. I guess my point is that scheme comes second to players. Get your best guys on the field and let everything else work itself out.

Man, all this talk about Hicks; I think I may work on a post using All-22 showing his strengths with a pre-snap look, post-snap look, and another one close to the conclusion of the play. Maybe that'll sell people a bit more on his ability. That may take a while though! LOL.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Some teams tie the personal to the offensive formation, some tie it to specific sides of the field. Depends on coaches preference and the needs of the personal available. Particularly with cornerbacks, for instance, it's a lot easier to teach technique and get consistently sound play if they're sticking to just one sideline. But if you have an elite boundary CB who allows you to roll your coverage consistently to one side, maybe you move him around with the best WR It's all much more malleable then we give it credit for on forums.

Yeah, you make a good point. I think I'll go check out some Dallas film and see how they line up guys on their defensive line. From the screenshots, it seems Houston moves guys around depending on the formation.

 

[LSSpam]

Man, all this talk about Hicks; I think I may work on a post using All-22 showing his strengths with a pre-snap look, post-snap look, and another one close to the conclusion of the play. Maybe that'll sell people a bit more on his ability. That may take a while though! LOL.

I'll pay you green thumbs for it

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Seriously what am I talking about? What are you talking about? When has the guy played DE? You are purely projecting him. I will be you anything you want he plays NT and that's it. Smith and Jordan are the DEs and we will find depth for them. We have no true NT except for Hicks who is a prototype nose. Please tell me you LT basis for Hicks at DE and who he even compares to? He is much bigger than 325 so sorry I said 6'6 your a joke.

I would think it's more likely he has been putting on weight the. Shedding it like you think. Norman Hand and Grady Jackson should have shed weight to play LB. hell maybe Smith sheds weight and plays OLB.

You do understand that a DE in a 3-4 can line up at 3-tech right? You do understand that 3-techs are usually played by defensive tackles that weight around 300 lbs right?

 

[insidejob]

Seriously what am I talking about? What are you talking about? When has the guy played DE? You are purely projecting him. I will be you anything you want he plays NT and that's it. Smith and Jordan are the DEs and we will find depth for them. We have no true NT except for Hicks who is a prototype nose. Please tell me you LT basis for Hicks at DE and who he even compares to? He is much bigger than 325 so sorry I said 6'6 your a joke.

New Orleans Saints: Akiem Hicks

What are you talking about?

 

[TruSaint]

Seriously what am I talking about? What are you talking about? When has the guy played DE? You are purely projecting him. I will be you anything you want he plays NT and that's it. Smith and Jordan are the DEs and we will find depth for them. We have no true NT except for Hicks who is a prototype nose. Please tell me you LT basis for Hicks at DE and who he even compares to? He is much bigger than 325 so sorry I said 6'6 your a joke.

Dude Ngata is 335 and is a beast DE in the ravens 3-4...

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

I'll pay you green thumbs for it

Coaches tape is all of a sudden not letting me skip to specific plays in whatever quarter I want - which means I'll have to watch a game up to that play to get there. If I can't get them to fix it, I'll just use regular footage for the post. Still should get the point across.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I was talking about playing Hicks at 3-tech but I think he can play 5-tech also. The only reason I'd start Smith over Hicks is if Hick has some problem picking up the scheme, and we have no proof that it will be the case. You say Smith is a savvy vet and I agree, but tell me how that has translated to him beating offensive lineman 1on1 . If you can't win 1on1 in the NFL, then you can't really help your team. Mediocrity won't cut it this time around - being in position isn't enough.

Hicks does not belong in a rotation, he needs to be starting. Last year, the game film proves that Hicks needs to be starting, no backing up some unproductive defensive lineman whose best days are behind him. I can't stress this point enough, the kid has the ability to dominate, he can't do that from the sidelines.

As for having two NTs, I think thats partially correct. Bunkley is a pure shaded nose, nothing else. That's what he does and he's great at it. Hick isn't that type of player. Even though he isn't in his universe "yet lol" think of using Hicks how the Ravens use Ngata. Dude lines up at 3-tech, 5-tech, etc. There isn't a position on the d-line where he can't line up and it's all based on getting him a matchup that he can win. I'm not sure what podcast you were listening to, but if they think of Hicks as only a NT, then I'd question how much they have actually studied the player.

As for the 3-4 Under, I remember that Payton interview. You right in that he said we'll be running a Under version of the 3-4, but he didn't mention which particular scheme. To be honest, I'm willing to be that that process is still on-going...and thats a good thing. Ryan most likely has a general concept of what he wants to run but he'll have to see how the pieces fit. Seattle for example runs a 4-3 Under with Red Byrant, Alan Branch, and Brandon Mebane - all three of those guys are DTs. I guess my point is that scheme comes second to players. Get your best guys on the field and let everything else work itself out.

Man, all this talk about Hicks; I think I may work on a post using All-22 showing his strengths with a pre-snap look, post-snap look, and another one close to the conclusion of the play. Maybe that'll sell people a bit more on his ability. That may take a while though! LOL.

Lol i believe u on hicks...I'm just making a call for depth.

Im not sure if it was that particular interview but Payton did say "The 3-4 will be akin to what you saw in Dallas/Houston" or something to that effect but those were the two teams he mentioned. This is an assumption but i don't think Dallas 1 gapped much under Ryan. Thus is why Ratliff's #'s went down...especially when Josh Brent wen't out and he didn't have a tag team partner.

So it leads me to believe that Payton after talking to Bill Parcells knows that it takes 2 years to make the full transition.

Right now our best bet is two 1 gap.


So with that line of thinking to have Hicks/Bunkley swap out @ NT with hicks possibly backing up the Two End positions for another year allows us to get the most out of our current roster. As of right now we have two 1 gap NT's. Take hicks out and we only have 1.


Also like i said just because Hicks plays NT in the base set doesn't mean he won't get moved around and play techniques in different fronts.

In our nickel package u could have a tandem of Junior/Jordan/Hicks/Wilson. Which in this case HIcks WOULD be playing the 3tech position...so its not that im just pidgeon holing him...im trying to give a general vision of our base defense.

If you play Hicks in that role then he will still end up seeing more snaps than bunkley. So hes on the field a lot...STILL.


Back on the subject. If we are thinking for long term vision here Id have Hicks for depth and rotating in with Bunkley until we can get a real 2 gap NT.

Again keying in on Payton the easiest way to make this transition is to 1 gap@ first...but it doens't mean we will just be a 1 gap defense in the future. We are just working with what we have right now.

Season after next when guys like Will Smith and Vilma are gone and we have a 2 gapper @ NT then i can see us making the transition to 2gapping while moving hicks to RDE.



Just from my point of view to make our transition easire and now to have as many questions about depth and where guys fit..u just fit them to what they were doing last year in the 4-3 which is

Hicks Bunks 1tech
Jordan 5 tech/3tech
Will Smith played those techniques under 3G
Walker/Johnson can definitely play the 3tech..but as of right now they are more nickel players
Hicks can play every position on the line in THIS style of 3-4.


If you take the above all of your bases are covered. You don't have to spend a HIGH draft pick on the Dline if you don't want to because u have adequate depth/starters@ every position.

Instead of grabbing someone like Brandon Williams in the 3rd. We can grab a guy like Montori Hughes/or Robert Geathers in the 5th or later and bring them along slowly as the 3rd NT.

Remove hicks from that equation and now you have Bunkley and a rookie manning the NT position possibly having to sign a NT in FA. I just don't feel good abou tthat when the 2nd guy in rotation for all intents and purposes can be hicks in the base set.

 

[DaDomePatrol]

WoW so now we are comparing Hicks to the most athletic and best DT in the NFL in Ngata? Is this a joke? We will be lucky if he turns out to be a good NT much less playing out of position at DE. Say all you want about guys 300 plus playing end and that's fine. Does not mean he will be one at all. He is nothing like Ngata in anyway! Guy can be a beast and that's at NT. Can he play some DE in certain formations? I would hope so but like I said he is a prototype NT in a 3-4. I guess we will see what RR thinks about this. Only time will tell and I will remember your prediction of DE because I will guarantee and put anything up that he is not. It's more likely he has been putting on weight hat losing weight. When Sean P decided to make the move I would bet a big reason was he already has his NT in Hicks not his other DE. People want to talk about Smith not being able to beat someone 1 on 1 in a 4-3 so why would he be good in a 3-4? Go put Hicks at DE in a 4-3 and see how effective he is. If you ask me W. Smith is way more suited at a 3-4 end where he is not asked to beat the LT to the outside every single play. He will now be able to play with his natural weight and strength instead of losing. Go look at Justin Smiths production in a 4-3 he was about to be out of the league. Now he has been a perennial pro bowler in a 3-4 and doesn't look like he's slowing down at 34. Smith has a chance to make an impact at DE I'm the 3-4 similar to his. Not saying he will be as good but he will be our best DE for the spot. I have been no Smith fan the past few years but have always wanted him in a 3-4. I would bet I'm not the only one who thinks this. RR, Sean P, and Mickey will also be in the same boat with many others on this board. Hicks will not be a DE by the way but our stud NT.