Great Article on Sacks from Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

[CitySaint]

The Okafor idea is appealing he would give us great depth as a rotational player with Galette and in a 2-4-5 Nickel he and Galette as outside pass rushers on opposite ends sounds like a good deal to me.

 

[LSSpam]

Everything I've seen projects Hicks at LDE and Jordan at Ride. In the 3-4 Okafor is way to mall to play LDE

Okafor looks best suited to play RDE in the 4-3.

If we're doing the Bum Phillips defense, then LDE is usually lined up as a 5-tech one gap penetrator. Again, think JJ Watt. RDE is basically a 3-tech defensive tackle.

So I'm not sure who is saying Hicks would go to the LDE and Jordan to RDE or why, but if what I understand about the defense we'll be running is correct, it's the exact opposite.

Okafor is pretty strong, decent sized, and has some interior experience. As a situational player he could definitely play LDE

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

One thing to take note of about this article (and it wasn't captured in the article) is that even though sack time is something you want as a low number, it isn't and end-all, and can be a bit deceiving. You could make an argument that if the majority of a guys sacks have a low sack time, that means he lacks a counter move. For example, if you looked at Quanterus Smith, I'm willing to bet his sack time would have been lower than some of these guys because he can get to the QB quickly or use a "slow rush" because he has, what in my opinion, are the best hands of any rusher in this draft.

Another thing this article is missing is the number of time a guy rushed the passer (not just snaps) divided by how many sacks he got; basically give you the percentage of time he got a sack when he rushed. That would have been a good neutralizer of small sample size.

 

[60minutes]

Very impressive for Mingo.

 

[LSSpam]

Here's a decent picture of what I'm talking about

In this regard, you can see it fits naturally with our personal. Galette remains, in some way, a weakside DE, playing the JACK. Will Smith moves inside to a 3-tech but remains on the weakside. Cam Jordan keeps doing what he has been doing on the left side. Hicks can either compete for the 1-tech nose or Will Smith's 3-tech spot. Bunkley probably slots in as the 1-tech.

 

[Nightshade]

If we're doing the Bum Phillips defense, then LDE is usually lined up as a 5-tech one gap penetrator. Again, think JJ Watt. RDE is basically a 3-tech defensive tackle.

So I'm not sure who is saying Hicks would go to the LDE and Jordan to RDE or why, but if what I understand about the defense we'll be running is correct, it's the exact opposite.

Okafor is pretty strong, decent sized, and has some interior experience. As a situational player he could definitely play LDE

The 3-4 I'm most familiar with is one where you use your NT to covet both A gaps then a lager LE to cover the B and C gaps (5 tech) and then use your RDE as a blind side pass rushet with only the C gap for his responsibility. Then allow your Jack LB the ability to rush from the left forcing the. QB back into the RDE.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

The 3-4 I'm most familiar with is one where you use your NT to covet both A gaps then a lager LE to cover the B and C gaps (5 tech) and then use your RDE as a blind side pass rushet with only the C gap for his responsibility. Then allow your Jack LB the ability to rush from the left forcing the. QB back into the RDE.

What you describe is a form of a 2-gap 3-4, and we plan to run a 1-gap scheme.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Here's a decent picture of what I'm talking about

In this regard, you can see it fits naturally with our personal. Galette remains, in some way, a weakside DE, playing the JACK. Will Smith moves inside to a 3-tech but remains on the weakside. Cam Jordan keeps doing what he has been doing on the left side. Hicks can either compete for the 1-tech nose or Will Smith's 3-tech spot. Bunkley probably slots in as the 1-tech.

Who do you think fits best at the 3-tech spot? Smith or Hicks? I'm inclined to say Hicks because I don't know if a guard can handle him all game. Of course with the assumption that his development is where it needs to be. I may be a bit biased but he's probably my favorite player on this defense - in what I think he can be.

 

[LSSpam]

The 3-4 I'm most familiar with is one where you use your NT to covet both A gaps then a lager LE to cover the B and C gaps (5 tech) and then use your RDE as a blind side pass rushet with only the C gap for his responsibility. Then allow your Jack LB the ability to rush from the left forcing the. QB back into the RDE.

I think you're describing the 3-4 OVER, which is basically the LeBeau defense and what Pittsburgh uses. I don't think thats what we're doing, I think we'll be doing more of a Bum Phillips/Texans sort of defense, though of course all teams use multiple fronts in the course of a season.

But there does seem to be some confusion, because frankly I don't even know where I heard that we'll be doing a Texans style defense. It makes sense to me to do so though.

In actuality both defenses we seem to be talking about are basically variations of what really is the traditional 3-4 defense, which uses 2-gap linemen across the board, in a 5-0-5 configuration. I call it the Parcells defense because Parcells has pretty much always used it, but it's not really Parcells' defense.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Here's a decent picture of what I'm talking about

In this regard, you can see it fits naturally with our personal. Galette remains, in some way, a weakside DE, playing the JACK. Will Smith moves inside to a 3-tech but remains on the weakside. Cam Jordan keeps doing what he has been doing on the left side. Hicks can either compete for the 1-tech nose or Will Smith's 3-tech spot. Bunkley probably slots in as the 1-tech.

Not to discredit you but if you compare this 3-4 under front to your illustration you will notice that the NT is shifted to the right and the RDE is playing the 5tech and the LDE is playing the 3tech.

Same vantage point but its a diff alignment. In the above the Weak ILB is coverd by the NT thats shifted over. Or maybe im just seeing it wrong???

This is what SP was talking about in covering up Vilma...in the 3-4 under picture u posted the NT is shaded on the right shoulder of the Center rather than the left.


Thats why i keep projecting Cam Jordan to RDE instead of Left....because in the under the Weakside of the formation is meant to be the strength.

IF you think about it the 3-4 under is very simliar to the 4-3 and if thats the case if we let ellis walk then we still need a 3tech...so our draft needs really don't change much....but thats just my opinion.


I listened to Paytons interview and one of the main things he talked about was the transition period an fitting guys to what they do best.

Hicks played@ 1 tech last year so why would we be considering him@ the 5 or 3 tech position. He was best as a 1tech...im not saying he cant play the 3 or 5 but as far as continuity then ud want him to build on what he was doing last year.

The other thing is just because he isn't a starter in the base doesn't mean Hicks wouldn't get plenty of snaps. the NT in the 3-4 has to be rotated a lot more. Assigning Hicks/BUnkley the role of NT basically sures up our NT spot. Jordan has the 5tech sewed up so that leaves your 3tech. Will Smith can rotate between RDE/LDE for depth but the 3tech with the Exception of Johson/Walker is still a mystery.

 

[LSSpam]

Who do you think fits best at the 3-tech spot? Smith or Hicks? I'm inclined to say Hicks because I don't know if a guard can handle him all game. Of course with the assumption that his development is where it needs to be. I may be a bit biased but he's probably my favorite player on this defense - in what I think he can be.

I imagine Hicks will get a shot at either spot with the intention of letting him win either job. Neither Bunkley nor Smith are long-term or ideal solutions to either spot.

The 1-tech is especially important in a Bum Philips defense because, as you can see, the RG is basically uncovered. Even though it's technically 1-gap responsibility across the board, it's pretty critical that the 1-tech be able to at least be enough of a presence that the RG can't just fire off the ball (especially in run plays) and pancake the SILB, who I would imagine would be Lofton. The WILB is basically a 4-3 MIKE, he's pretty covered up. He also normally lines up a little deeper than the SILB and is the guy who you expect to read the play and operate in space. This is why, I assume, Payton said Vilma was still in the cards, he would project there.

The 3-tech is also important though, because ideally you want him to pose enough of a threat to the LG that the LT can't just fire back into his stance without concern for the RDE. This makes the JACK a more effective pass rusher.

So, basically, I don't know I'm learning about this as fast as everyone else.

 

[Javon7143]

Kind of forgot about Okafor being that he missed the combine due to a hip-flexor injury. Should be an interesting pro day for him.

 

[LSSpam]

There are, of course, multiple variations used all the time. And I'm not claiming a perfect understanding, but the "base 3-4 under" I think is pretty much as described. Here are some different Texans lineups

So i'm not sure what the picture you posted is about, but it doesn't apply to the Houston Texan defense I'm talking about at base.

 

[LSSpam]

As you can see in the pictures above, it's pretty obvious they generally line the RDE up in a 3-tech and JJ Watt up in the 5-tech or even 6-tech.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

There are, of course, multiple variations used all the time. And I'm not claiming a perfect understanding, but the "base 3-4 under" I think is pretty much as described. Here are some different Texans lineups

So i'm not sure what the picture you posted is about, but it doesn't apply to the Houston Texan defense I'm talking about at base.

Interesting thanks