Greg Norman's Saudi-funded LIV Golf Tour tees off (Update: PGA Tour agrees to merger) (1 Viewer)

[Bill]

No doubt a lot of the players who move to the LIV tour are 'disappointed' by the judge's ruling that the PGA Tour has the right to bar them from the upcoming FedEx playoffs. While the lost (potential) earnings from that series may not be so critical after their big payday from the Saudis, they will definitely regret losing any potential points & positions that would have allowed them to qualify for 3 of the 4 majors next year. Even though none of the LIV players will miss giving up the regular tournaments they were once a part of, they will definitely miss being restricted from the PGA Championship, the US Open, and the (British) Open Championship. Perhaps only those LIV players who were past champions of the Masters will be allowed/invited to play in that annual event. I'll be curious to see who this ruling will affect the decisions of other players who are considering moving over to the LIV Tour.

 

[superchuck500]

Today the judge in the PGA anti-trust case denied the players request for an injunction that would allow them to play in the PGA's equivalent of the playoffs.

 

[Bill]

Today the judge in the PGA anti-trust case denied the players request for an injunction that would allow them to play in the PGA's equivalent of the playoffs.

Correction: The PGA Tour's equivalent of the playoffs. The PGA of America is a separate entity.

 

[ChrisinNOLA]

I don’t see this lasting. It’s already starting to crumble for LIV. Remember when CART and INDYCAR were going at it in the late 90’s early 00’s. Differences get resolved. Even if it goes through the court system.

 

[triumph]

I don’t see this lasting. It’s already starting to crumble for LIV. Remember when CART and INDYCAR were going at it in the late 90’s early 00’s. Differences get resolved. Even if it goes through the court system.

It may not take hold in the US, but LIV is building a decent line up of players from outside of the USA (32 of 48 players in last tournament were non-Americans). If the rumors are true and Cam Smith and Mark Leishman are joining after the President's Cup, then they've nabbed prime Aussie players with the major exception being Adam Scott. If LIV reels in Hideki, that will be huge for them.

 

[superchuck500]

I don’t see this lasting. It’s already starting to crumble for LIV. Remember when CART and INDYCAR were going at it in the late 90’s early 00’s. Differences get resolved. Even if it goes through the court system.

CART and Indycar were two different entities that emerged after an internal split in US open-wheel racing - I think this is very different, with LIV being an international rival to the PGA Tour with what appears to be a very deep checkbook from the Saudis to create something along the lines of F1 for golf.

LIV just added Cameron Smith today . . . for $100 million.

 

[Bill]

Slowly but surely LIV is purchasing a legitimate tour. It's going to be really hard for the purists who remain on the PGA Tour to view LIV as a rogue league after they buy most of the top players around the world. Especially when the few holdouts will have offers that are AT LEAST as lucrative as the sign on bonus that Cameron Smith just got. If the PGA Tour doesn't work out something amicable with the LIV Tour, they may eventually find themselves becoming the least legitimate tour.

Money talks, and LIV is getting their share of the best players around the world. True golf fans will always turn to where the greatest golfers are assembled.

 

[triumph]

CART and Indycar were two different entities that emerged after an internal split in US open-wheel racing - I think this is very different, with LIV being an international rival to the PGA Tour with what appears to be a very deep checkbook from the Saudis to create something along the lines of F1 for golf.

LIV just added Cameron Smith today . . . for $100 million.

that's not official. I'm guessing he'll wait until the President's Cup (late September) to move as it's a big deal for the int'l team to lose to the US every 2 years. I saw where Cam earned 9.8M this year and ~27.5M in his career from golf earnings. 100M? Wow. The lighter schedule may allow him to move back to Australia if that's a goal of his.

 

[efil4stnias]

Slowly but surely LIV is purchasing a legitimate tour. It's going to be really hard for the purists who remain on the PGA Tour to view LIV as a rogue league after they buy most of the top players around the world. Especially when the few holdouts will have offers that are AT LEAST as lucrative as the sign on bonus that Cameron Smith just got. If the PGA Tour doesn't work out something amicable with the LIV Tour, they may eventually find themselves becoming the least legitimate tour.

Money talks, and LIV is getting their share of the best players around the world. True golf fans will always turn to where the greatest golfers are assembled.

Will they?

The product is getting diluted. ( Golf overall ) The amount of money being spent...is it sustainable for LIV?

Everything moves in cycles. PGA is experiencing somewhat of muted interest over last 3-5 years and LIV hopped in at right time. But LIV may be short LIVed if they keep adding golfers

question is...the $100,000,000 - over 10 years? 20 years? What is the language in contract if say, 3 years from now, LIV is struggling and golphers want to move back to PGA?

They keep tossing out eye-pooping numbers, but we just dont know the true construction of the contract.

 

[ChrisinNOLA]

CART and Indycar were two different entities that emerged after an internal split in US open-wheel racing - I think this is very different, with LIV being an international rival to the PGA Tour with what appears to be a very deep checkbook from the Saudis to create something along the lines of F1 for golf.

LIV just added Cameron Smith today . . . for $100 million.

I saw a really good tv special on A&E Sunday on WWE VS WCW in the 90’s . Ted Turner was spending enormous amount of money on starting a show on Monday night to compete against the WWE. Turner then went and got WWE talent like Hogan, Razor & Kevin Nash. It would eventually fall apart. WCW folded and WWE bought what was left of WCW.

This is what I see happening with LIV. Too much money. It will burn out. Smart move by PGA banning them from play in PGA events. Let them back in once they cut ties with LIV.

 

[superchuck500]

Will they?

The product is getting diluted. ( Golf overall ) The amount of money being spent...is it sustainable for LIV?

Everything moves in cycles. PGA is experiencing somewhat of muted interest over last 3-5 years and LIV hopped in at right time. But LIV may be short LIVed if they keep adding golfers

question is...the $100,000,000 - over 10 years? 20 years? What is the language in contract if say, 3 years from now, LIV is struggling and golphers want to move back to PGA?

They keep tossing out eye-pooping numbers, but we just dont know the true construction of the contract.

In the hearing yesterday, the judge commented that she had seen examples of the LIV contracts and they expressly state that the players are receiving such high compensation precisely because they will be excluded from PGA Tour events . . . "they knew what they were getting into" she said.

Now this doesn't go directly to the anti-trust claims, the PGA Tour can still be violation even if the players were compensated for it by LIV. I think what she was referring to was that the players claimed they needed an injunction based on "irreparable harm", which is one of the elements the party must show to get an injunction.

 

[triumph]

Will they?

The product is getting diluted. ( Golf overall ) The amount of money being spent...is it sustainable for LIV?

Everything moves in cycles. PGA is experiencing somewhat of muted interest over last 3-5 years and LIV hopped in at right time. But LIV may be short LIVed if they keep adding golfers

question is...the $100,000,000 - over 10 years? 20 years? What is the language in contract if say, 3 years from now, LIV is struggling and golphers want to move back to PGA?

They keep tossing out eye-pooping numbers, but we just dont know the true construction of the contract.

Bryson DeChambeau's ~125M was for a 4.5 year commitment. I don't know how much of that is up front

 

[superchuck500]

Bryson DeChambeau's ~125M was for a 4.5 year commitment. I don't know how much of that is up front

So this is interesting - apparently in yesterday's hearing LIV's attorney made comments that made it sound like these huge contract amounts are treated like an advance against winnings . . . in other words, if DeChambeau wins a tournament that pays $5M, it might be treated as already paid under his contract.

But he also said that the contracts aren't all the same.

 

[efil4stnias]

So this is interesting - apparently in yesterday's hearing LIV's attorney made comments that made it sound like these huge contract amounts are treated like an advance against winnings . . . in other words, if DeChambeau wins a tournament that pays $5M, it might be treated as already paid under his contract.

But he also said that the contracts aren't all the same.

so like a "draw"

Which, if memory serves me, most PGA hopefuls get "sponsored" and paid a stipend and any earnings are to be paid back to sponsor for the stipend ..at least thats how i understood PGA to work years ago.

So LIV doing basically same - except its one sponsor, the Saudis.

So we will pay you $5mm a year with the opportunity to win $5mm and if you do, you pay us back lol. ( or you dont collect on the purse )

 

[triumph]

So this is interesting - apparently in yesterday's hearing LIV's attorney made comments that made it sound like these huge contract amounts are treated like an advance against winnings . . . in other words, if DeChambeau wins a tournament that pays $5M, it might be treated as already paid under his contract.

But he also said that the contracts aren't all the same.

Strange. How many golfers were part of yesterday's hearing? Was it just the 3 with the restraining order to compete in the FedEx playoffs? I can see that being a clause for Matt Jones, Talor Gooch, and Hudson Swafford. No offense to them but they don't move the needle. Just speculation, but I'd doubt if DJ, Bryson, or Brooks would have (agree to) that type of clause.