Hamilton, the Musical...but also hip hop (1 Viewer)

guidomerkinsrules

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the thread you've all been waiting for...
hopefully you have been living under a rock and have at least heard about Hamilton if not listened to the album (PLEASE listen to the album - its brilliance and cultural importance can't be undersold)

BUT, i want to take this moment to say THIS is what Hip Hop always promised - intelligent wordplay, great beats, cultural perspective shifting -
unfortunately most thing of hip hop in the form that Entertainment corporations have sold it
most imagine the buffoonery (and i don't use that lightly) of gangsta/thug culture that is sold to white teen suburbanites

i think one of the issues that stand in the way of dialogue about recent violent race-involved events is that many people hold a very corrupted image of "the other side"

anyway, listen to the album
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pdR-G6LY4SY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

mjcouvi

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OK, I'm no fan of Hamilton (he was instrumental in creating the first central bank of the US, a precursor to our current out of control banking system). If there is a forefather of big banks, you might could make a good argument that it's hamilton.

But that was pretty cool.
 

mjcouvi

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OK, I realize I'm diverging a bit here, but if you're a big weirdo like me then you'll like this. It's a debate about Hamilton.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OeE_s1Gw7X4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Zack Lee

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seems like I remember in a New Orleans history book there was much ado about Burr possibly starting an American revolution here in the city.


edit:

hopefully you have been living under a rock and have at least heard about Hamilton if not listened to the album (PLEASE listen to the album - its brilliance and cultural importance can't be undersold)
ok I listened (read) the youtube. Does the fact that this is the first I am hearing or reading of this mean that I have not been living under a rock? This is so confusing.
 
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guidomerkinsrules

guidomerkinsrules

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OK, I'm no fan of Hamilton (he was instrumental in creating the first central bank of the US, a precursor to our current out of control banking system). If there is a forefather of big banks, you might could make a good argument that it's hamilton.

But that was pretty cool.
the musical puts his ego on full display - he's certainly the 'hero' of the story but it allows him to be complicated.

i think one of the brilliant things about the musical is that it's sent tons of kids into reading up about this time

a hip hop musical has makes kids excited about america's founding history
i think most people, Jeff Miller aside, would find that a net positive
 

mjcouvi

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the musical puts his ego on full display - he's certainly the 'hero' of the story but it allows him to be complicated.

i think one of the brilliant things about the musical is that it's sent tons of kids into reading up about this time

a hip hop musical has makes kids excited about america's founding history
i think most people, Jeff Miller aside, would find that a net positive
I appreciate the artistry, definitely.

I just wish that kids would be given more divergent viewpoints. It's easy to paint Hamilton as just another crooked politician, but you won't find hardly any US history teacher providing that perspective.

Hamilton is a bit of a villain for me.

But I actually listened to the song twice, the word play is excellent. And, yeah, Hamilton did some good things too, and his uprising is certainly impressive.
 

GW93

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seems like I remember in a New Orleans history book there was much ado about Burr possibly starting an American revolution here in the city.


edit:



ok I listened (read) the youtube. Does the fact that this is the first I am hearing or reading of this mean that I have not been living under a rock? This is so confusing.
If you've been aware of pop culture in the last few months, I would have thought you'd have heard of Hamilton by now. The show was cited as one of the reasons why the Dept. of Treasury decided to give Jackson the heave-ho from the $20, rather than boot Hamilton from the $10 as had been originally suggested.

As for Aaron Burr's New Orleans connection, apparently much of the evidence in the so-called "Burr conspiracy" came from Gen. James Wilkinson, first governor of Louisiana Territory and former Burr partner. The conspiracy had something to do with taking over Spanish territorial holdings and parts of the Louisiana purchase and declaring a new nation or something like that.

the Burr Conspiracy
 
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guidomerkinsrules

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I appreciate the artistry, definitely.

I just wish that kids would be given more divergent viewpoints. It's easy to paint Hamilton as just another crooked politician, but you won't find hardly any US history teacher providing that perspective.

Hamilton is a bit of a villain for me.
i hear that, and normally i would be right there - we talked about that a bit in the Hamilton/Jefferson thread - normally i would be 100% jefferson but there are aspects to both of their personalities that make easy fandom hard
the landed gentry being for the common man
the penniless immigrant being for central banking control*

or at least central bank AT THAT TIME - i still get the feeling that if we'd followed jefferson out of the blocks we might have been disorganized and bankrupt and become a colony again in short order
 

mjcouvi

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i hear that, and normally i would be right there - we talked about that a bit in the Hamilton/Jefferson thread - normally i would be 100% jefferson but there are aspects to both of their personalities that make easy fandom hard
the landed gentry being for the common man
the penniless immigrant being for central banking control*

or at least central bank AT THAT TIME - i still get the feeling that if we'd followed jefferson out of the blocks we might have been disorganized and bankrupt and become a colony again in short order
Yeah, the whole idolization of the founders, whether Hamilton or Jefferson or anyone else, I don't think that's a good thing to make these folks into some kinda heroes. They all had plenty of flaws and did some really rotten stuff. They can be praised, yeah, there's lots of stuff to praise them for, but there's soooo much to criticize too.

No one's done a better job of analyzing US institutional financial history than Murray Rothbard. He makes a pretty good argument, based in business cycle theory, that the times the US has had a central bank has led to much more disorganization, many more induced economic bubbles, than during the times that the country enjoyed a more free and open banking system. Check this out: https://www.amazon.com/History-Money-Banking-United-States/dp/0945466331
 

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