Saints Haslett refusing to pull Aaron Brooks and leaving Delhomme on the bench... (1 Viewer)

[SaintKenKen]

Yes, it crossed my mind, but only in this way:

"Wow, these fans are already turning on Teddy. I bet they associate him with Aaron Brooks because he's black."

I don't say these things out loud because I don't want another race war. But now that we have a black QB that's playing instead of the fan favorite white boy backup....yep, the comparisons are going to happen.

They shouldn't though because we'd had almost zero time to properly evaluate Teddy before we can begin comparing the situations. In my mind, I think we'll see Taysom in the game more vs Seattle similar to the way he was used in Week 1 vs Houston. I'm surprised it didn't happen a little vs the Rams, honestly. But I get it...there was no reason to use the hook on TB in what was obviously going to be a loss against the defending NFC champs. Just take the L and don't create a dern QB controversy

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

I get what you're saying in a way. I said it yesterday. Payton will ride with experience vs the unknown, no matter the potential. I remember when Charles Brown was getting slapped around like a ragdoll. We had young Armstead on the bench, and I kept thinking, it cannot be any worse.. After enough agony, Payton finally gave Armstead a shot, and we know how that played out. It's all speculation, of course. We don't know how Taysom will fare behind the starting unit. We do know that he's a gamer, though. If Teddy stinks it up and Payton eventually feels there's nothing to lose by giving Taysom a shot, I think it could happen. Until then, we are going with Teddy.

 

[SystemShock]

You are wrong. Watch more football.

Ok. Let's analyze.

Smith was arguably the best WR in football at that point,

Argue that Steve Smith was better than Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, Hines Ward, Andre Johnson, Joe Horn, and I'll leave it a at.

Muhammed was a stud of a big strong possession WR,

Muhammad wasn't a stud. He was serviceable, but not even close to being a stud. He had one really good season as a Panther, but you can't call a perennial #2 or less WR a stud.

and Proehl was a really effective little slot guy.

Proehl was solid, but wasn't anything special. He made a name being the 4th guy in St. Louis behind Holt, Bruce, Az-Hakim, and Faulk.

It'd be today's equivalent of having something like Antonio Brown, Allen Robinson, and DeDe Westbrook as your WRs, which would probably be the best in the league right now.

Yeah, no.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Ok. Let's analyze.


Argue that Steve Smith was better than Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, Hines Ward, Andre Johnson, Joe Horn, and I'll leave it a at.


Muhammad wasn't a stud. He was serviceable, but not even close to being a stud. He had one really good season as a Panther, but you can't call a perennial #2 or less WR a stud.


Proehl was solid, but wasn't anything special. He made a name being the 4th guy in St. Louis behind Holt, Bruce, Az-Hakim, and Faulk.


Yeah, no.

Smith was better than Ward, Bruce and Horn by such a large degree that they shouldn't even exist in the same sentence. Moss was better. Harrison - eh, close. Andre Johnson wasn't there yet.

And I'll leave you alone with your thought that a WR who is in the top 30 all-time in receiving yards at his position is not a good player. Can't fix stupid.

 

[SystemShock]

Yes, it crossed my mind, but only in this way:

"Wow, these fans are already turning on Teddy. I bet they associate him with Aaron Brooks because he's black."

I don't say these things out loud because I don't want another race war. But now that we have a black QB that's playing instead of the fan favorite white boy backup....yep, the comparisons are going to happen.

They shouldn't though because we'd had almost zero time to properly evaluate Teddy before we can begin comparing the situations. In my mind, I think we'll see Taysom in the game more vs Seattle similar to the way he was used in Week 1 vs Houston. I'm surprised it didn't happen a little vs the Rams, honestly. But I get it...there was no reason to use the hook on TB in what was obviously going to be a loss against the defending NFC champs. Just take the L and don't create a dern QB controversy

I hate to say it, but I think you do have a valid concern. Speaking for myself, if it was DeShaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Russell Wilson, coming in for Brees, I'll be like:

 

[SystemShock]

Smith was better than Ward, Bruce and Horn by such a large degree that they shouldn't even exist in the same sentence.

You said Steve Smith was arguably the best WR in football at that point. I asked you to make that argument. That's not even close to an argument.

And I'll leave you alone with your thought that a WR who is in the top 30 all-time in receiving yards at his position is not a good player.

That wasn't my thought at all. I never made such claim either.

Can't fix stupid.

And now you resort to insults. Cool.

 

[Loose Cannon]

You said Steve Smith was arguably the best WR in football at that point. I asked you to make that argument. That's not even close to an argument.


That wasn't my thought at all. I never made such claim either.


And now you resort to insults. Cool.

If someone is a top 3-5 receiver, you can certainly "make an argument" that they are the best in football. "Make an argument" means being in the conversation, which Steve Smith undoubtedly was for the majority of the 2000s.

If someone is a top 30 wide receiver all time, it's not even up for debate whether they're a very good player (or "stud"). They are.

Regardless of your squirming, there is no way someone knowledgeable about football would ever make the argument that a hall of famer, a top 30 WR all-time, and an excellent slot receiver is not an absolutely loaded group of WRs. And that was your original point. It'd be like saying a team with Marvin Harrison and Chad Johnson (both below Smith/Muhsin respectively) isn't loaded. It's ridiculous. Literally nobody is going to take your side here.

So I'll simply tell you again to try harder, watch more football, etc.

 

[ThrowbackSaintXXL]

It is true that Culpepper picked up his own fumble and scored the 2-pt conversion to win the game.

However, you forget that it was the first game of that 3 game losing streak. The next 2 games, the Saints lost 13-20 to the 6-9 Panthers and 6-10 to the 2-13 Bengals.


It was the very next year after the 3 game losing streak that Haslett traded Delhomme to Carolina and the Panthers went to the SB.

True, Delhomme's play didn't take the Panthers to the SB. But you need to tone it down.

Without looking it up, can you tell who were the WR's of the 2003 Panthers were? You probably knew Steve Smith. I had to look it up because I didn't remember. Mushin Muhammad, Ricky Proehl, He Hate Me. How about the TE's? Not exactly the Greatest Show on Turf.

If you are talking stats, Delhomme didn't have great stats. His stats were mediocre. His TD-INT ratio was mediocre. The year the Panthers went to the SB, he was 19-16. Next year he improved to 29-15. I take it you get why I mention those stats.


Maybe, maybe not, but I think it is safe to say the Saints had a better chance with a QB who wasn't visibly hurt.

Yeah I recall those CAR n CIN games. Low scoring affairs no doubt n AB bares some of that blame but the point was AB was always unfairly made to bare most of it. Even before those games, he'd done enough to get us in the postseason but he never got his due credit

U can downplay that receiving corp all u want but it was a better overall cast than what we have now

U say we had a better chance with Jake in n AB on the bench but apparently Jim Haslett thought different. And it's not outta line to think he had good reason to think that way

 

[DaveXA]

I really hate the idea of relitigating the whole Delhomme vs Brooks debate, but...by all accounts, Brooks was clearly injured and Jake wasn't. Haslett made an awful decision to stubbornly keep Brooks in.

By pro standards Jake was average to pretty good during his years as a pro. He threw for more TDs than interceptions the 2 seasons following his departure from the Saints and had a nice career with Carolina. People have short memories and tend to forget that. I was always a fan of Brooks and thought he deserved to start ahead of Jake, but when Brooks was injured, it's really not a debate what Haslett did. That was when I lost all confidence in him.

That season, iirc, we needed one more win with 4 games left to clinch a playoff berth...we all know what happened.

 

[srcampbell]

I knew it was only a matter of time.

 

[NatureBoy]

I agree with everything except the "surrounded by failure". The offensive line has been praised as one of the best in the NFL, we have AK, and Thomas, with a good supporting cast. So I just wasn't quite sure by what you meant by that. But as for the "presence motivates or inspires his teammates". That is so right on. TB does not bring the same intensity or energy to the huddle as DB or even TH. The pace of the game comes to a screeching halt when TB entered the game. Same thing happened in preseason (which I talked about and got slammed for).

The only reason TB was kept on this roster was so TH could be used as the NFL swiss army knife he is. TB was the security blanket. Sorry if TB feelings will be hurt, but if SP stays with him for an extended amount of time, then all I can say is, SP better be glad he signed his extension prior to the Rams' game and not after. Don't think he would have received it if he keeps TB at QB.

Yesterday, I think he was surrounded by failure. An offensive line getting beat, passes dropped, penalties, etc. We definitely have a good if not great OL and a couple of all pro level weapons.

 

[Saint_Ward]

No.

I think you're also forgetting that Hill had to come in and play receiver. We had some injuries there too.

Teddy looked like he was going through multiple reads each pass. They were covering our guys well. At times, if he could have thread the needle, it may have worked. He was a touch behind a few guys. But I was actually encouraged with Teddy's play.

No one is Brees though.

 

[WhoDat!5]

These situations don’t compare. Brooks was playing through an injury (either admittedly or obviously, I don’t remember specifically) raising questions about Haslett’s decision.

Bridgewater, like it or not, is prepped and slotted as the backup. He struggled today, but he also didn’t get much help. But as long as he was healthy to play, I think it’s reasonable that Payton stuck with him to give him a chance to settle in.

Anybody expecting a quick hook under these circumstances had unrealistic expectations, IMO.

If Bridgewater doesn’t step it up soon, I expect we will see Taysom getting his shot.

I feel as though him not getting much help could be his own fault. The O-line can only block without holding for so long; Teddy was taking forever to get rid of the ball. Either he lacks confidence in the WRs or he lacks confidence in his own ability to execute.

Of course Brees is going to be far more confident solely based on the fact that he's been in this offensive system for over a decade. However, even if Teddy is not extremely confident in this offensive system yet, he should at least be confident in his ability to make throws. He may be able to make every throw Brees can make, and maybe even have a stronger arm, but to be a good QB he also has to have the confidence to let it rip. So the question is, does he lack confidence in the WRs or himself?

I want to add that at this point I don't have an opinion one way or another as to who should be starting. I'm not a football guru, so I'm not going to pretend I know who is better out of Teddy and Taysom. I'm also not expecting either to step in and operate the offense to the level that Drew does, that would be a ridiculous expectation on my part. However, Teddy is an NFL QB, so I'd like to see he confidence improve next week.

 

[SystemShock]

If someone is a top 3-5 receiver, you can certainly "make an argument" that they are the best in football. "Make an argument" means being in the conversation, which Steve Smith undoubtedly was for the majority of the 2000s.

You are still not making an argument to back up your statements, you are just doubling down, and continue to move the goal posts to boot. We went from "arguably the best WR in football at that point" to "top 3-5".

But go ahead, make the argument that Steve Smith, at that point, was in the top 3-5 WRs in football. And by making an argument, I mean make an argument, not just a statement. That means you have to explain the why, btw.

If someone is a top 30 wide receiver all time, it's not even up for debate whether they're a very good player (or "stud"). They are.

Just to clarify, you are referring to Mushin Muhammad .
For one, he's ranked 31st all time in receiving yards. But anyway, If you go merely by total receiving yards in a career as your standard, them Muhammad was better than all of the following (just a few "notables" ) :
Julio Jones
Antonio Brown
Don Hutson
Lance Alworth
Fred Biletnikoff
Charley Taylor
John Stallworth
Marques Colston
Drew hill
Sterling Sharpe
Gary Clark

Damn! Musing Muhammad needs to be in the HoF!

Regardless of your squirming,

I am not squirming. BTW, insults and condescension don't make your point right, but rather clarify you have no argument to make.

there is no way someone knowledgeable about football would ever make the argument that a hall of famer, a top 30 WR all-time, and an excellent slot receiver is not an absolutely loaded group of WRs. And that was your original point. It'd be like saying a team with Marvin Harrison and Chad Johnson (both below Smith/Muhsin respectively) isn't loaded. It's ridiculous. Literally nobody is going to take your side here.

My original argument was really a refusal of you assertion that they a fantastic WR corps, or top of the league. If you are going by watching football, then you'd know they, as a group, weren't fantastic or top of the league. If you go by numbers alone, as you did with Muhammad, in 2003, Delhomme was the 13th rated QB by total yards, so there were 12 other WR corps ahead of the Carolina WR corps as far as total yards. They did better in 2004, but then went back down in 2005 and 2006.

So I'll simply tell you again to try harder, watch more football, etc.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice.

 

[ndcc]

I did think of it.

Thanks for your honesty, Marsha.

Must have hit a nerve with all the clown, facepalms, dislikes my post has garnered.

Apparently, some snowflakes are offended that I had the actual temerity to ask if that THOUGHT crossed their minds. Not if I thought it was the same as back in 2002, nor if I thought we should yank Bridgewater right now.

I only asked if the thought of that situation back in 2002 crossed their minds.

Whatever.