Hate to say I told you so...... (1 Viewer)

[abyss3]

The last two years of Grant's contract have ridiculous numbers in them (something like $14 million per season) which he will never see. The contract is essentially a 5 years/$35 million, which is pretty reasonable. The entire D underperformed last year and everyone's numbers suffered, including Smith. When you don't have good coverage it is very hard to get sacks.

** shrug ** - sounds reasonable to me. I'll add that Mickey L is good at want he does and will probably do whatever can to keep a good player on this team.

Edit: I agree GD.

 

[Blue]

How much of last years drop in production was due to Smith and Grant playing heavier and were they asked to beef up to help against the run? Non of us really knows. I think Coach O will have these guys leaner and faster this year. We need to find help in the middle to free them up a little, but I expect great things from them this year. I expect Smith's deal to be done. I don't think he's upset, I think he's made a business decision because he was assured last year he'd be looked after. He played like a trooper. This will work out. Grant was over paid, no doubt, but he won't see those final overpriced years of the contract anyway. The sky is not falling and I'm not going to worry until Smith starts missing significant time.

 

[saintsfan15]

i agree with you too and yea we do have the best in ricky loomis he is great at it but grant was a bust for us last year he really needs to step it up if he is worth that kind of money i would rather have gave that money to will smith and then give grant some but not that big of a contract!!

 

[saintfan-n-alex]

we will be fine because he is a heckava player lol

this is an early mini camp, not training camp, WS is a vet, knows the system, only thing he is missing is first days working with his new position coach.

the increasing of the salary cap is going to elevate contracts since they are not expanding the roster above 53 - Grant is over paid if you evaluate under the old cap numbers, he will soon be underpaid when rated among other DEs that will be getting new deals moving forward. he is a solid DE and arguably one of the best on the dline against the run.

like Grant WS is a solid player, didnt say a word during the katrina situation and unlike other players we are hearing about making demands for trades etc, his missing this camp is quiet statement from he and his agent to the Saints.

we may not always sign the right player but we seem to be able to sign whomever we try to sign, i dont recall us getting out bid for a player who is seeking his true value, which is why Faine isnt here.

depending on how the draft plays out (Ellis) we could have one of the best D-lines in the game, WS will be a huge part of that. Contract disputes when it comes to keeping FAs\Players isnt about the total of the deal as much as the difference in the teams offer and the players demands - that difference will not be enough for the Saints to let WS walk and leave a gaping hole at his position, and that gap becomes smaller through negotiations\incentives as the season grows near.

Personally i think Devery is the most likely draft day trade bait.

 

[DaFan]

Whatever will we do without those 7 sacks from last season? It's a joke that our "dominant" DE's couldn't even combine for over 10 sacks, yet we're gonna lock both up to mega contacts. Who wants to bet that McCray has more sacks on the season than Grant? Our pass rush was a joke last season (whether or not Grant was hurt) and I don't think it's gonna be that much better this season. We have no push up the middle, and noone (DT) to command double teams. Until that changes, our defense will continue to sit around the middle of the pack.

 

[Ti Rider]

Raise your hand if you didn't realize Charles Grant's deal would impact Will Smith........no one? O.K. move along, nothing to see here.......

 

[Domeination]

I have to admit that none of our DEs distinguished themselves last year, and I thought our defensive schemes added to their lackluster performance. We did not do enough stunting, for instance. Also, I have noticed that both Smith and Grant use a very limited set of moves when rushing the passer. I'm hoping Ogeron will be able to revitalize both of those guys by showing them how to mix up their techniques, do a better job of disguising the techniques they are going to use presnap, and move them around more to create confusion and uncertainty in the offensive line. The Giants were masterful at doing that last year. That said, I think continuity is important to a team's chemistry, and Smith is an above average DE, and we have the cap space for Loomis to get him signed. I think it's too early to fret over this.

 

[syracuse saint]

Personally, I don't take offense to OP's title.

I have been married for almost 20 years, so I am used to someone telling me, "I hate to tell you, but I told you so."

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Whatever will we do without those 7 sacks from last season? It's a joke that our "dominant" DE's couldn't even combine for over 10 sacks, yet we're gonna lock both up to mega contacts. Who wants to bet that McCray has more sacks on the season than Grant? Our pass rush was a joke last season (whether or not Grant was hurt) and I don't think it's gonna be that much better this season. We have no push up the middle, and noone (DT) to command double teams. Until that changes, our defense will continue to sit around the middle of the pack.

Agreed, our pass rush was weak last year. How did we do against the run? Against the run with a very weak linebacking corps and secondary? We sold out to stop the run and make opponents one dimensional. Do you remember what it was like to give up 5-6 yards on first down to everyone? I do. Even more painful than watching our secondary get torched.

My point? There are a lot of areas to attack our defense on, but our defensive line was not bad. Grant was not a "bust" as posted by another. Grant and Smith are the two young defenders we need to build around.

And if sacks are what float your boat, then we'll have to fix the other holes before we can cut these two loose. Then we can really judge their effectiveness.

 

[Scott B]

If the Will Smith deal is so easy, why isn't done?

Because they made a mistake with Grant and they do not want to repeat it. I agree that Smith should and will get a bigger contract than Grant. With that logic, how do you tie up $130 million dollars in two defensive ends that cannot get to the QB?

Grant got $63 million over seven years with $20 million guaranteed. What does Smith get? $70 million over seven years and $23 million guaranteed? No chance in hell. Strahan and Umeniyora don't get paid like that and they actually get to the QB.

my one question to you is if Grant and Smith have a good year in 2008, will you come back to tell us how wrong you were?

 

[Shawn]

The premise of the original poster is just wrong.

You can't focus on the total value of the contract, which is exactly what everyone seems to be obsessing on. The effective length and value of the contract is considerably less, and not outrageous. There is a fair market value that can't be avoided. A starting defensive end in the NFL is going to make a lot of money, bottom line.

And while it's another debate that's been beaten to death on this board, Grant played the run very well last year. He also played most of the season with torn ankle ligaments--how can you not take that into consideration when assessing his performance.

The "I told you so" part of this thread is stupid.

 

[bobad]

We don't know what's going on with Smith yet. While there may be no formal talks yet, I'm sure Smith's agent is wearing Loomis out on the phone. The main money may or may not be the main sticking point. Front and back loading, guarantees, and performance incentives are just as often the sticking point. Based on Smith's poor performance last year, I'm betting Loomis is trying go light on the contract and heavy on the incentives!

Orgeron likes light, fast DL, so maybe Smith is worried about losing his ribs and chicken wings. You never know!

 

[Newkie]

And while it's another debate that's been beaten to death on this board, Grant played the run very well last year.

Exactly.

For all the heat Grant took last season, he was excellent against the run. Probably the best he's ever been. Sure, you'd like to see his sack numbers increase -- 2.5 is too low -- but looking at the entire spectrum of what he bought to the team, he wasn't nearly as bad as some people are making him out to be.

The reason I think sack numbers were down? Our linebackers. This is pure speculation, but it seemed like the defensive ends may have been asked to play more against the run rather than getting upfield after the quarterback, because our weak linebacker corps was a liability. With improved backers, this year, I fully expect to see Grant and Smith getting up the field and getting a higher sack total.

 

[UTSaintsFan]

Exactly.

For all the heat Grant took last season, he was excellent against the run. Probably the best he's ever been. Sure, you'd like to see his sack numbers increase -- 2.5 is too low -- but looking at the entire spectrum of what he bought to the team, he wasn't nearly as bad as some people are making him out to be.

The reason I think sack numbers were down? Our linebackers. This is pure speculation, but it seemed like the defensive ends may have been asked to play more against the run rather than getting upfield after the quarterback, because our weak linebacker corps was a liability. With improved backers, this year, I fully expect to see Grant and Smith getting up the field and getting a higher sack total.

I think you're right. Even though Grant doesn't get alot of sacks, he does bring pressure... and anytime a quarterback or runningback trys to venture over to his side, he usually gets them. I would say that is the hallmark of a good DE.

 

[Superfan]

Imagine Vilma, Colston, Evans, and Smith saying i need money.