TV HBO picks up George RR Martin series - Game of Thrones (60 Viewers)

Jonesy77

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Taurus

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k it's a funny meme, but i think it exposes a central problem with fan perception
fans are like, 'how can this be some precision weapon in e5 and then pea shooters in e6
that's overlooking the plainly obvious to get to the less accessible complaint,,,

in e5 euron landed a sucker punch on a still very wounded, wobbly dragon
Drogon even surprised with a freaking out Dany on him, easily dodged the rest of the scorpion bolts
so his counterattack on the scorpions in e6 should have been easily predicted

now not only is this not sloppy storytelling, it's insightful about the war,
when Qyburn is like...'maybe we should bdp' Cersei was like, ''we just need one shot'
she'd staked her entire strategy on a scorpion bolt taking out drogon
that's it - that's all she had
Tywin to Cersie: I don't distrust you bc you are a woman, I distrust you bc you re not as smart as you think you are'

putting all of her faith in a ineffective weapon
Tywin was right
Except they'd already brought Drogon down with a low-power portable Scorpion and hit Rhaegal three times with the ship mounted ones. Each hit punched through the dragon's armor like it wasn't there.

Cersei had no reason to believe that every single shot would be a clean miss.

It's emblematic of how the writing quality degraded over time. Just as with the Battle of Winterfell, there's a ton of ways to get the story to the same place, with cool visuals, that still makes sense and still serves each character well. They just chose spectacle over story.
 
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Except they'd already brought Drogon down with a low-power portable Scorpion and hit Rhaegal three times with the ship mounted ones. Each hit punched through the dragon's armor like it wasn't there.

Cersei had no reason to believe that every single shot would be a clean miss.

It's emblematic of how the writing quality degraded over time. Just as with the Battle of Winterfell, there's a ton of ways to get the story to the same place, with cool visuals, that still makes sense and still serves each character well. They just chose spectacle over story.
I think all they had was an outline from GRRM once past the books. They probably thought he'd give them more material and when that didn't happen had to pivot to writing. And well Hollywood happened...

They simply aren't able to put as much planning and plotting in place to avoid creating these plot holes.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Except they'd already brought Drogon down with a low-power portable Scorpion and hit Rhaegal three times with the ship mounted ones. Each hit punched through the dragon's armor like it wasn't there.

Cersei had no reason to believe that every single shot would be a clean miss.

It's emblematic of how the writing quality degraded over time. Just as with the Battle of Winterfell, there's a ton of ways to get the story to the same place, with cool visuals, that still makes sense and still serves each character well. They just chose spectacle over story.
Drogon got hit in the fog of war by a previously unknown weapon
Rhaegal was essentially limping and had almost no maneuverability (proving Sansa right about the need to rest, btw)
but after the killshot attack when Drogon/Dany got away this is how the next military strategy meeting should go
Euron: I got the small one
Cersei: and the big one?
Euron:...
Cersei: ok, so when you had the element of surprise and the shock of losing a brother/child dragon, you could not hit the very, very big dragon?
Euron...
how many bolts did you shoot at it?
Euron: i lost count at 30
Cersei: 30?
Euron: plus
Cersie: so you feel confident that now that Dany/Drogon know our position at sea and on land having seen Drogon already evade 30plus bolts and the ability to strike at great speed from most any direction you feel confident that we can land that shot?
Euron, Qyburn:...
 

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Drogon got hit in the fog of war by a previously unknown weapon
Rhaegal was essentially limping and had almost no maneuverability (proving Sansa right about the need to rest, btw)
but after the killshot attack when Drogon/Dany got away this is how the next military strategy meeting should go
Euron: I got the small one
Cersei: and the big one?
Euron:...
Cersei: ok, so when you had the element of surprise and the shock of losing a brother/child dragon, you could not hit the very, very big dragon?
Euron...
how many bolts did you shoot at it?
Euron: i lost count at 30
Cersei: 30?
Euron: plus
Cersie: so you feel confident that now that Dany/Drogon know our position at sea and on land having seen Drogon already evade 30plus bolts and the ability to strike at great speed from most any direction you feel confident that we can land that shot?
Euron, Qyburn: Very, since last time was at the extreme edge of our range and this time he'll have to get close enough to breath fire. It's point-blank and we have *hundreds* of ships. Somebody will hit it.
Cersei: What if she attacks at night?
Euron, Qyburn: Then we're f******.
 
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farfromsilent

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I think all they had was an outline from GRRM once past the books. They probably thought he'd give them more material and when that didn't happen had to pivot to writing. And well Hollywood happened...

They simply aren't able to put as much planning and plotting in place to avoid creating these plot holes.
I don’t buy that. They had TWO YEARS to plan it out and get it right. They should have easily been able to avoid plot holes.
 

St. Widge

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I think the thing that screwed them over is they tried getting a little to cute with trying to surprise the audience. In doing so they trapped themselves in a corner with those plot holes.
I have to be honest, outside of the fact that one dragon getting easily killed by the scorpions and the other dodging them all, I don't really see any other true plot holes. And, I'm not sure that the scorpion accuracy really counts as a plot hole. It's improbable, but that's not a plot hole. A plot hole is something that doesn't fit at all or is unexplainable. There are explanations for the scorpions. Specifically that the dragon that was killed was taken by surprise and was not a full strength or maneuverability due to injury, holes in his wings, and fatigue. Maybe it was a sloppy way to generate the drama they wanted, but I still don't see them as actual plot holes.

If the holes you are talking about are bad military decisions, those are certainly there, but again, I don't think those are plot holes as much as they are things that do happen in the real world. To the extent that they are errors by the writers again, maybe it was a sloppy way to generate the drama they wanted, but I still don't see them as actual plot holes.

So, I'm really curious what do you see as the plot holes in this season?
 

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I have to be honest, outside of the fact that one dragon getting easily killed by the scorpions and the other dodging them all, I don't really see any other true plot holes. And, I'm not sure that the scorpion accuracy really counts as a plot hole. It's improbable, but that's not a plot hole. A plot hole is something that doesn't fit at all or is unexplainable. There are explanations for the scorpions. Specifically that the dragon that was killed was taken by surprise and was not a full strength or maneuverability due to injury, holes in his wings, and fatigue. Maybe it was a sloppy way to generate the drama they wanted, but I still don't see them as actual plot holes.

If the holes you are talking about are bad military decisions, those are certainly there, but again, I don't think those are plot holes as much as they are things that do happen in the real world. To the extent that they are errors by the writers again, maybe it was a sloppy way to generate the drama they wanted, but I still don't see them as actual plot holes.

So, I'm really curious what do you see as the plot holes in this season?
Well for one (and I don’t mind that they did it to be honest) they said they had Arya kill the Night King simply because it was unexpected. They only decided that it would be her three years ago. So that was after season 6 was done filming or right as they were starting the filming for season 7. So everyone who keeps claiming that Arya was the one who was foreshadowed the entire series hasn’t been listening to D&D.

Even Martin talks about it here.

 

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Well for one (and I don’t mind that they did it to be honest) they said they had Arya kill the Night King simply because it was unexpected. They only decided that it would be her three years ago. So that was after season 6 was done filming or right as they were starting the filming for season 7. So everyone who keeps claiming that Arya was the one who was foreshadowed the entire series hasn’t been listening to D&D.
I mean, that's not a plot hole. There is nothing missing that would make it impossible for Arya to kill him and, if he is the amazing fighter that some claim he must be, it seems like having him killed by a sneak attack from a highly trained assassin is the only logical way that he really could be killed. And it's not like they have anyone left that is some sort of amazing swordsman other than Cleggane and maybe Brienne. But, neither of those really make sense in killing him since Cleggane doesn't much care about anything and Brienne would likely go to Sansa, not Bran. Jon is the other option and although he seems to be pretty good, nobody ever claims he's one of the great fighters like Jamie when he had both hands, Ser Arthur Dayne, Prince Oberyn, or Ser Barristan Selmy.

And, I think 3 years probably should count as a fairly long term plan. GRRM was even working with them at that point.
 

farfromsilent

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I mean, that's not a plot hole. There is nothing missing that would make it impossible for Arya to kill him and, if he is the amazing fighter that some claim he must be, it seems like having him killed by a sneak attack from a highly trained assassin is the only logical way that he really could be killed. And it's not like they have anyone left that is some sort of amazing swordsman other than Cleggane and maybe Brienne. But, neither of those really make sense in killing him since Cleggane doesn't much care about anything and Brienne would likely go to Sansa, not Bran. Jon is the other option and although he seems to be pretty good, nobody ever claims he's one of the great fighters like Jamie when he had both hands, Ser Arthur Dayne, Prince Oberyn, or Ser Barristan Selmy.

And, I think 3 years probably should count as a fairly long term plan. GRRM was even working with them at that point.
Do you forget what Ramsay said to Jon before the Battle of the bastages? He said that the rumors of Jon say he is the greatest swordsman that ever lived, which is why he didn’t want to commit to single combat.
 

TheRealJRad

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And, I'm not sure that the scorpion accuracy really counts as a plot hole. It's improbable, but that's not a plot hole. A plot hole is something that doesn't fit at all or is unexplainable.
I mean you're basically duck hunting with a rifle.
 

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