TV HBO picks up George RR Martin series - Game of Thrones (2 Viewers)

Jonesy77

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guidomerkinsrules

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Rhaegal was hit at the far end of their range before Dany could see the armada. The followup shots at a retreating Drogon were low-percentage at best.
retreating?
she and drogon went into a death dive right at the scorpions (dodging along the way) until she finally pulled up
 

St. Widge

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It's the same problem that has plagued this season from the get-go. They've subjugated story and characterization to the pursuit of spectacle.
I'm not saying that isn't true. It is. Certainly it was true of the Dothraki charge. An attack at night on the Iron Fleet and the scorpions would have made more sense and made the dragon totally safe. Still, I don't think it's that unbelievable that a dragon can dodge shots from stationary mounted cross-bows that can't track movement or stationary mounted cross-bows that can't track movement mounted on the deck of a rolling ship. I think it's actually less believable that they would ever hit anything, including the first dragon. I mean cannons used in ship to ship combat and ship to shore combat, that would be more accurate than a big cross-bow, missed all the time at closer range because they were on the decks of rolling ships.
 

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retreating?
she and drogon went into a death dive right at the scorpions (dodging along the way) until she finally pulled up
And it took her long enough to get there that they had time to reload and she had time to perform an HET and bug out. Rhaegal was whacked waaay on out there.

From an ep4 perspective, Dany didn't even need to retreat. She could've just kept on coming since that's exactly what she did in ep5.

It's a cop-out when precisely the same tactics on the part of character A result in 180* different results from one episode to the next. It's especially disappointing when, as I said earlier, the writers could easily have Dany's initial attack at the buttcrack of dawn, had an even better spectacle of dragonfire lighting up the fleet and still gotten the rest of the battle done in clear daylight.
 

Taurus

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I'm not saying that isn't true. It is. Certainly it was true of the Dothraki charge. An attack at night on the Iron Fleet and the scorpions would have made more sense and made the dragon totally safe. Still, I don't think it's that unbelievable that a dragon can dodge shots from stationary mounted cross-bows that can't track movement or stationary mounted cross-bows that can't track movement mounted on the deck of a rolling ship. I think it's actually less believable that they would ever hit anything, including the first dragon. I mean cannons used in ship to ship combat and ship to shore combat, that would be more accurate than a big cross-bow, missed all the time at closer range because they were on the decks of rolling ships.
Well, yeah. But with three hits at extreme range, they'd painted themselves a corner regarding the uncanny accuracy of Scorpions. Like Euron himself, those things are magic. So if you're going to do that, go with it...do a "Yes, and..." instead of a "Nah, never happened"
 

St. Widge

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Well, yeah. But with three hits at extreme range, they'd painted themselves a corner regarding the uncanny accuracy of Scorpions. Like Euron himself, those things are magic. So if you're going to do that, go with it...do a "Yes, and..." instead of a "Nah, never happened"
I see your point. I'm just saying that it seems the criticism should be on the ones that took out the first dragon rather than the ones missing the second dragon. As I recall, there was actually a lot of criticism saying it wasn't believable that Bronn was able to hit Drogon back in season 7.
 

St. Widge

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I think you guys are over thinking this. It's a fantasy show, not everything needs to line up with real world expectations. But that's me, continue onward at your leisure.
I agree. And I really never notice these things when watching. I only think about them when people start picking episodes apart. So, I have to say that I have enjoyed this season. It's not quite up to past GoT levels, but bringing it to an end was never going to be fully satisfying no matter what they did.

That being said, I will accept anything they want me to believe in fantasy when magic or magical creatures are involved. But, once you choose a set of rules, you have to follow them. I don't think that was really violated here, but how vulnerable the dragons were was played a little fast and loose.
 

boutte

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I think all they had was an outline from GRRM once past the books. They probably thought he'd give them more material and when that didn't happen had to pivot to writing. And well Hollywood happened...

They simply aren't able to put as much planning and plotting in place to avoid creating these plot holes.
They also didn't have seven years to write it. If you want to blame somebody blame GRR Martin.
 

saint_drago

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I agree. And I really never notice these things when watching. I only think about them when people start picking episodes apart. So, I have to say that I have enjoyed this season. It's not quite up to past GoT levels, but bringing it to an end was never going to be fully satisfying no matter what they did.

That being said, I will accept anything they want me to believe in fantasy when magic or magical creatures are involved. But, once you choose a set of rules, you have to follow them. I don't think that was really violated here, but how vulnerable the dragons were was played a little fast and loose.
Exactly. I'll buy whatever they sell me and I'll enjoy every moment of it. But it's not unreasonable to have opinions or observations about something we love so much as fans. It's not unreasonable to expect some sort of consistency in the product we're buying.

I mean, this is page 685 in a thread about a dragon show. Of course we're overthinking it!
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Exactly. I'll buy whatever they sell me and I'll enjoy every moment of it. But it's not unreasonable to have opinions or observations about something we love so much as fans. It's not unreasonable to expect some sort of consistency in the product we're buying.
well i think some of y'all are undermining this argument
the quality of the show now has been in place at least since s7, and really parts of it going back to s5
people are complaining about a paradigm that's' already been ceded - -yes the only D&D stuff is markedly different than the GRRM +D&D stuff
to continually re-litigate that point seems unpointy

now maybe this thread is prepping us for life after Drew, when we're all like 'well, teddy is still winning' and then others continually add, 'yeah, but he's not drew'
it is highly unlikely that continuing to complain that TB is not drew will ever bring drew back
 

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I believe episode 3 really soured many people on this season. Once again(and it's been a few times) the spectacle got the best of me on first viewing. It had great visuals but no one could continue to ignore the dumb military strategy.

I will continue to stand up for episode 5. It had a few flaws but I watched a fantasy story turn to horror. I'm a horror fan.
 

Saint by the Bay

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A little late to the discussion, but the only time the dragons were ever hit by the scorpions were when they were surprised by it. None of them ever got hit by them when they knew the shot was coming.

I think that's why Dany was so confident. She knew they could hit an aware dragon with those things.
 

jayd265

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I think you guys are over thinking this. It's a fantasy show, not everything needs to line up with real world expectations. But that's me, continue onward at your leisure.
I agree. I enjoy it just to have a show to watch. Yes there are flaws. But not like they had time to story tell another 3-4 seasons. (Which I wish they could’ve)

But after the 2 years away. No way this season would live up to the hype. Just sit back and enjoy the finale.
 

Sun Wukong

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I agree. I enjoy it just to have a show to watch. Yes there are flaws. But not like they had time to story tell another 3-4 seasons. (Which I wish they could’ve)

But after the 2 years away. No way this season would live up to the hype. Just sit back and enjoy the finale.
This isn't just a case of a show not living up to the hype. There are profound failures of narrative, characterization, pacing and story structure occurring. Things that simply didn't exist when the show was adapting the books.

It's easy to say "You built it up too much in your head" or "It isn't playing out like you wanted it to" to try an explain the negative reactions, but the truth is this season has been messy, slapdash, and often incomprehensible. Characters who were once brilliant are now morons. Plot threads that were built over seven seasons have been thrown out as quickly as possible in a race to get to the finish line. It's just been a mess. That isn't my expectations or what I built up in my head. That's objectively looking at what season 8 is doing and saying "This is all just off. Badly so." That Starbucks cup on set making it to air is, in some ways, indicative of how all this feels. Rushed, unpolished, and sloppy.

Dani's heel turn is a prime example of the issues facing the show this year. Sure, there was some minimal groundwork laid for the idea she could go bad. It didn't come out nowhere in terms of concept. But it may as well have come out of nowhere in terms of execution because the show has done almost nothing to earn what happened last week. She was a character who had, on occasion, displayed some authoritarian tendencies and seemed to have some issues with arrogance and wrath. But it was slow burn stuff. If you want to make a character break bad over that, you've got to a better job than just say "Oh, this secondary character pal of hers got murdered, she's crazy now and just killed countless innocent people in a horrific firestorm because of it." That's bad writing. Everyday of the week.
 

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