TV HBO picks up George RR Martin series - Game of Thrones (40 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

Although I'll buy Guido's take that it was to punish Tyrion I can live with that more than I can "well she saw The Red Keep and kinda forgot about innocent children's lives" bullshirt answers that D&D keep pumping out in these behind the scenes after the episodes. I think this season would be ten times better with out having to listen to those guys try and explain why they did what they did. At least the fans can come up with better logic reverse engineering everything to make up for their shirtty writing.

Yep, I don't buy their explanation. It just seemed obvious to me that she had finally snapped. The Targaryen mad queen gene had activated because of all the things that had happened to her and she just lost it and went full on mad queen. I think the final straws were Messandei's death (which was significant since she was sitting on her dragon, on the wall right next to where she was killed) and the fact that after Drago, she had finally found a man she could love, Jon, but because she is her aunt, he can not love her back. That finally made her snap. That, to me, is a much more reasonable explanation.

 

[Brandon13]

I would argue the opposite.

Some are still so married to “GoT is best show ever!!111” that they are willing to excuse any number of missteps in the final season so they can continue the illusion that this show has been the best ever from start to finish.

i mean, i get it
once you've broken up with something, everything becomes evidence of their 'badness' even if the evidence is less than compelling

I'd gotten to the point with The Walking Dead where it didn't matter what they did, i was going to see it as complete suckage (which it was for the most part)

here there are many compelling reasons for disappointment
jet packing/compression
GRRM stopped writing
shortcuts with character development

BUT what is clear is that much of the plot and character moves are textually supported - but the exs are ignoring obvious answers to wring as much anger out as they can

Yeah, I don't really have any kind of an issue with the actual story itself. it just seems obvious to me that the standard that was set for years with this show is not being met due to the rushed nature of the storytelling now.

 

[Brad Mojo]

Anybode else notice that Ayrya's clothing and hairstyle looked like Ned Stark?

 

[St. Widge]

I would argue the opposite.

Some are still so married to “GoT is best show ever!!111” that they are willing to excuse any number of missteps in the final season so they can continue the illusion that this show has been the best ever from start to finish.

I really have never cared what is or isn't the Best Show Ever and I have no idea if GoT is it or not. So, I really have no dog in that fight. But, what I will say is that even if it isn't as good as it was in the first 6 seasons, it's still entertaining and fun to watch. And, it's more entertaining and fun to watch if you don't take it too seriously, analyzing it for ever possible plot hole or error that you can find. Sure it has it's problems, mostly due to money and a compressed schedule, but it remains highly entertaining if you don't look for every problem you can find. And, I don't know if this is you or not, but some seem to watch it now only to find the plot holes or problems so they can run to the internet and show people how smart they were to find the holes. Personally, I don't find that entertaining, but you and others may feel differently.

 

[Brad Mojo]

 

[livefromDC]

Jon has been blinded by his attempts to be the most honorable person he can be... for much longer than this season. It got him killed, it led to his army rushing to their deaths and nearly losing the battle of the bas.. Jon's not stupid, he's just dumb at times.

The way I see it happening is he's going to try to confront her, perhaps in front of all the troops... because what she did was wrong and his honor can't let that stand. Same honor that got Ned killed in season 1 - likely end up getting Jon killed in the series finale. I don't see anyway to bring down Dany other than Arya becoming Grey Worm... nobody else can get close to her now. She won't let Jon close, Tyrian, definitely none of the Starks. Grey Worm is the only way to her. She's got to die after that episode... don't see anyway around it. There can't be a big army vs army battle - nobody stands a chance against Dany and Drogon. There has to be some type of assassination.

Yeah, I don't know how Jon plays in the end but it's pretty clear that it's going to be Arya to kill Dany.

 

[saint_drago]

I would argue the opposite.

Some are still so married to “GoT is best show ever!!111” that they are willing to excuse any number of missteps in the final season so they can continue the illusion that this show has been the best ever from start to finish.

I think the "GoT is the Goat" talk came to an abrupt halt last night. Bad endings can ruin a series and that looks to be happening here. Such a shame. They dropped the ball before crossing the endzone like DeSean Jackson.

I understand they wanted to move on to new projects but come on, get the ball in the endzone.

 

[Cage1]

I remember some posts on GRRM's blog years ago, probably before the show started, where we was staunchly against fanfiction. There was a big deal where some authors were saying it wasn't a big deal and was flattering and he said nope, write your own world and characters. Don't write someone else's.

Now we're seeing why.

 

[brandon8283]

I really have never cared what is or isn't the Best Show Ever and I have no idea if GoT is it or not. So, I really have no dog in that fight. But, what I will say is that even if it isn't as good as it was in the first 6 seasons, it's still entertaining and fun to watch. And, it's more entertaining and fun to watch if you don't take it too seriously, analyzing it for ever possible plot hole or error that you can find. Sure it has it's problems, mostly due to money and a compressed schedule, but it remains highly entertaining if you don't look for every problem you can find. And, I don't know if this is you or not, but some seem to watch it now only to find the plot holes or problems so they can run to the internet and show people how smart they were to find the holes. Personally, I don't find that entertaining, but you and others may feel differently.

This is not a fair argument, either.

The current season is entertaining from a spectacle standpoint. There's plenty of visuals, lots is happening at a rapid pace...it is objectively entertaining. And if you read pretty much every critic's argument, they concede that point. I have multiple times.

The next thing I'll say is that I am not one to go looking for plot holes. In fact, I'm usually surprised when people mention them in various shows. But they are so blatantly obvious in this season that they are actually detracting from the story. That's the problem - you don't have to go looking for the plot holes. They're staring you in the face.

 

[efil4stnias]

honestly i could be a number of things - i think Emilia Clarke has been much better the last few seasons but she couldn't quite handle the decision to torch (and honestly only about 5-6 of the show's actors could have handled it)
so anyway, we are left to add up all the frustrations leading to this moment - -tyrion/varys advising her at least 4 times not to go in heavy (which led to her losing 2 dragonchildren, 1/2 her force & the closest thing she has to a friend)
then jon's betrayal
somewhere in all of that the decision was made - -and within the show. justified

all i know is i spent the last 40 min of the show wondering when the fire rain would end. I mean EVERYTHING was dracarys.

stunned ( and that Cersie avoided getting roasted open flame style)

 

[brandon8283]

Or, some of just want to enjoy a TV show without having every flaw contained therein dissected and beaten into the ground like it's a crime against humanity. Maybe don't assume the motivations of opinions that you don't understand.

You realize my post was a response to guido's post that presumed the motivations of critics, right?

Edit: And if you just want to watch the show without dissecting it, I would argue that this is not the particular thread for you.

 

[St. Widge]

Now contrast those feelings with the deaths of the Night King and Cersei. At least for me, it’s just not the same. There was just so little...anything in either of their deaths.

Even Dany sounded bored roasting Varys, another character whose death didn’t fit the bill.

To be fair to the season, Melisandre’s death was slightly more fitting, and Missandei’s “Dracarys” was truly chilling.

I don't agree that he NK's death wasn't satisfying and I'm not sure about Cersei. On the one hand, dying an anonymous death with nobody around after she has had everything taken from her seems the worst punishment possible for her. On the other hand, I can see how there might be more satisfaction in Arya, Jamie, or Tyrion killing her. But, at the same point, wouldn't that be much like Vary's death which as you said, felt a bit hollow? And I was honestly more bothered by Jamie taking two dirks to the ribs and still walking all the way into the Red Keep and down. The whole Euron fight seemed dumb and weird to me. And it had no real point.

But, on a larger point, I'm not sure every death has to be fitting. Sometimes people just die. That's reality. Not everyone get's appropriately punished. And when that happens in a show or book, it's make the appropriate deaths even more meaningful to me.

Beyond that, I think this episode was focusing on the random horrible deaths of innocents and Cersei's death being lumped in with those to some extent helps to emphasize the contrast between her dying that way and how we feel when an innocent dies a meaningless death.

 

[brandon8283]

And I was honestly more bothered by Jamie taking two dirks to the ribs and still walking all the way into the Red Keep and down. The whole Euron fight seemed dumb and weird to me. And it had no real point.

No disagreement here. My wife and I were looking at each other in shock when we realized it was quite possible that Euron forking Greyjoy would take down Jamie in what might as well have been a back-alley brawl. If Euron had succeeded, it would have been just as bad, if not worse, than the death Jamie actually got. And for what it's worth, I don't mind the way Jamie died, surprisingly. I just don't like the way Cersei died, even though they died the same way. Jamie's death wasn't great, but it seemed more fitting for his character than Cersei, for some reason.

But, on a larger point, I'm not sure every death has to be fitting. Sometimes people just die. That's reality. Not everyone get's appropriately punished. And when that happens in a show or book, it's make the appropriate deaths even more meaningful to me.

I don't disagree with that thought, either. We've had characters that "just died" before. Tywin's death was pretty anticlimactic. Yet, it seems that now, the most important characters need more important deaths. So far, the best death has probably been Lyanna Mormont. For what it's worth, she could easily have been a character that "just died" and I would have understood it and respected the decision.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I think the "GoT is the Goat" talk came to an abrupt halt last night. Bad endings can ruin a series and that looks to be happening here. Such a shame.

i must admit to having some flashbacks to the end of Lost & the last season and esp the last episode
*shudders*

 

[brandon8283]

Cersei's death being lumped in with those to some extent helps to emphasize the contrast between her dying that way and how we feel when an innocent dies a meaningless death.

This is a really thoughtful position.