TV HBO picks up George RR Martin series - Game of Thrones (1 Viewer)

[farfromsilent]

i'd be interested in hearing your reasoning
what separates them? (and i as specifically alluding to the 2nd bombing)

See MrVoodoo’s post above.

 

[Brandon13]

i'd be interested in hearing your reasoning
what separates them? (and i as specifically alluding to the 2nd bombing)

See MrVoodoo’s post above.

Yeah, that.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

But this wasn't like Nagasaki. This was like General MacArthur signing the Japanese Instrument of Surrender and then Truman ordering a few more A bombs to be dropped on Tokyo just to make sure they get the point.

Speaking of that I heard that neither of our A bombs hit their intended target, is this true? I heard we avoided civilian areas and yet one of them hit one.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

The razing of KL was after KL surrendered... no justification at all

i'm certainly not going to call it justified
but i'm pretty sure the thinking is - KL surrenders and i'm still going to have to deal with the Jon thing and Tyrion and Sansa and whomever Varys got the ravens off to
that was the whole thing to Jon about love vs fear

remember in Mereen she freed the slaves and everyone was all wahwahbooboo
Sansa and Tyrion are showing her that westeros will be kingdom wide versions of sons of the harpy
and she was like 'screw that noise, imma announce my presence with authority'

 

[Brandon13]

i'd be interested in hearing your reasoning
what separates them? (and i as specifically alluding to the 2nd bombing)

What Dany did to KL is akin to us dropping the second bomb, Japan surrendering... and then us dropping a third bomb on them.

 

[St. Widge]

she obviously had spies on Varys and she has grown paranoid (or whatever it is when you think everyone is talking behind your back and they actually are)
so she would def have a tail on Tyrion
he does his little shuck & jive to the unsullied guards to get in Jaime's tent - -i can't see any possible way that news did not get back to her
remember Dany has been suspicious that Tyrion has been leading here in a 'protect all lannisters' direction (if not trying to make sure lannisters win) since they got to westeros

But, the thing is that her spies can't be very good because she did not know that Varys had betrayed her or that he was trying to poison her again. When Tyrion goes to tell her he says you have been betrayed. And she says I know, Jon Snow betrayed me. Tryion has to tell her no, Varys betrayed you. So, her spies can't be that good since she did not know about Varys.

Also, that little routine with Jamie's guards happens shortly before the battle and the guards had no real reason to think anything was wrong. I don't think they had time to tell anyone and even if they did, they were Unsullied guards, they can't just run to Dany and get a private audience right before the battle to tell her something suspicious happened with Tyrion, even if they had thought to do it. Likely, they would have followed the chain of command and reported it to Grey Worm. But, they clearly didn't do that since Grey Worm was standing right by Tyrion before the battle and says nothing to him about it. In fact, given Grey Worm's state and his knowledge that Varys had betrayed Dany, I suspect if Grey Worm had known about it, he would have run Tyrion through with his spear.

So, I don't really see any way that she could have known of Tyrion's plan before she burned the City. And, even if she did, for all she knew, the plan had worked since the bells were ringing.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

The bombings of Japan helped to end a war (and the thought was fewer people died in those bombings than would have if the war continued)

The razing of KL was after KL surrendered... no justification at all

I believe there are those of us that completely understands her actions, I'm also pretty sure that no one has justified them.

 

[Brandon13]

i'm certainly not going to call it justified
but i'm pretty sure the thinking is - KL surrenders and i'm still going to have to deal with the Jon thing and Tyrion and Sansa and whomever Varys got the ravens off to
that was the whole thing to Jon about love vs fear

remember in Mereen she freed the slaves and everyone was all wahwahbooboo
Sansa and Tyrion are showing her that westeros will be kingdom wide versions of sons of the harpy
and she was like 'screw that noise, imma announce my presence with authority'

Right, I can agree that that may have been her thought process.. but it's still how a tyrant would handle it, which is really my only point.

 

[St. Widge]

i'm certainly not going to call it justified
but i'm pretty sure the thinking is - KL surrenders and i'm still going to have to deal with the Jon thing and Tyrion and Sansa and whomever Varys got the ravens off to
that was the whole thing to Jon about love vs fear

remember in Mereen she freed the slaves and everyone was all wahwahbooboo
Sansa and Tyrion are showing her that westeros will be kingdom wide versions of sons of the harpy
and she was like 'screw that noise, imma announce my presence with authority'

I don't think what she did had anything to do with rational thought. It was pure emotion and insanity. It was a war crime. It was the My Lai massacre with a dragon.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

See MrVoodoo’s post above.

pretty sure Dany ended the war too
Hiroshima was about ending the war
Nagasaki seemed more like 'hey stalin, we got more of this if you're feeling froggy'

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

But, the thing is that her spies can't be very good because she did not know that Varys had betrayed her or that he was trying to poison her again. When Tyrion goes to tell her he says you have been betrayed. And she says I know, Jon Snow betrayed me. Tryion has to tell her no, Varys betrayed you. So, her spies can't be that good since she did not know about Varys.

Also, that little routine with Jamie's guards happens shortly before the battle and the guards had no real reason to think anything was wrong. I don't think they had time to tell anyone and even if they did, they were Unsullied guards, they can't just run to Dany and get a private audience right before the battle to tell her something suspicious happened with Tyrion, even if they had thought to do it. Likely, they would have followed the chain of command and reported it to Grey Worm. But, they clearly didn't do that since Grey Worm was standing right by Tyrion before the battle and says nothing to him about it. In fact, given Grey Worm's state and his knowledge that Varys had betrayed Dany, I suspect if Grey Worm had known about it, he would have run Tyrion through with his spear.

So, I don't really see any way that she could have known of Tyrion's plan before she burned the City. And, even if she did, for all she knew, the plan had worked since the bells were ringing.

To be fair, not many people knew about Varys' various machinations.

 

[Brandon13]

pretty sure Dany ended the war too
Hiroshima was about ending the war
Nagasaki seemed more like 'hey stalin, we got more of this if you're feeling froggy'

Had Japan surrendered after Hiroshima I don't believe the second bomb would have been dropped on them, which is where I see the difference.

 

[St. Widge]

To be fair, not many people knew about Varys' various machinations.

True. I'm just saying that spies were never really one of Dany's talents. Her strength was in building up loyalty so that she didn't need spies. Sure she was paranoid, but she couldn't even find out that a man, Varys, that had tried to have her killed several times and even tried to have her poisoned, was trying to kill her again. You would think her paranoia would have extended at least that far to the point spies would have been all over Varys. But, they apparently weren't.

 

[farfromsilent]

i'm certainly not going to call it justified
but i'm pretty sure the thinking is - KL surrenders and i'm still going to have to deal with the Jon thing and Tyrion and Sansa and whomever Varys got the ravens off to
that was the whole thing to Jon about love vs fear

remember in Mereen she freed the slaves and everyone was all wahwahbooboo
Sansa and Tyrion are showing her that westeros will be kingdom wide versions of sons of the harpy
and she was like 'screw that noise, imma announce my presence with authority'

Yep... she’s a tyrant.

 

[farfromsilent]

pretty sure Dany ended the war too
Hiroshima was about ending the war
Nagasaki seemed more like 'hey stalin, we got more of this if you're feeling froggy'

You’re ignoring the fact that the war was over before she razed King’s Landing. We were still waiting for the Japanese to surrender when we dropped the second bomb.