TV HBO picks up George RR Martin series - Game of Thrones (42 Viewers)

[BIG E]

 

[St.Fury]

I know the lack of episodes has been a problem. And yes, they could of done a "better" job of showing Dany's downward spiral. A few more episodes would of certainly made that easier. But given all those givens. After they killed her dragon and Misandi.. I knew without a doubt she was gonna burn the whole city down. Told everyone I knew who was watching the show, she's gonna burn that whole city into the ground. To me it was obvious. Agreed they could have used more time and episodes. I would have been more surprised if she didn't burn it all to the ground.

Looking back, she's really been on this path for a while. Her insistence to Jon not to tell anyone about his parents. All the way back to when she burnt Sam's father and brother for not bending the knee, she's shown signs of "Mad Queen."

 

[St. Widge]

Dani's heel turn is a prime example of the issues facing the show this year. Sure, there was some minimal groundwork laid for the idea she could go bad. It didn't come out nowhere in terms of concept. But it may as well have come out of nowhere in terms of execution because the show has done almost nothing to earn what happened last week. She was a character who had, on occasion, displayed some authoritarian tendencies and seemed to have some issues with arrogance and wrath. But it was slow burn stuff. If you want to make a character break bad over that, you've got to a better job than just say "Oh, this secondary character pal of hers got murdered, she's crazy now and just killed countless innocent people in a horrific firestorm because of it." That's bad writing. Everyday of the week.

While I do agree that the last two seasons have been rushed and as a result the dialogue has not been as good and some things could have been handled better, I will never understand complaints about Dany turning into the Mad Queen. It's been telegraphed since the very start of the series and hints have been dropped over the last 10 years. And in last season and this season in particular we have seen Dany suffer loss after loss and the loss of the love that she craved since she grew up with no love from her brother or anyone else. Hell, she was so messed up she fell in love with a dude who raped her, Drogo. Then the final straw is when her only true friend that is left is executed and her last wish is for her to burn the city. But they weren't done. She also after that realizes (whether true or a product of a paranoid mind) that the one man she though she found love with, had betrayed her and so had the only trusted advisors she had left. I mean, if that doesn' explain her going Mad Queen satisfactorily, I'm not sure what you want. Did you need to see the chemical imbalances slowly building in blood test after blood test over 5 years?

Could they stretched these most recent events over another two seasons? Sure. But I don't think it would make it any more believable and I actually think the fact that they happened so quickly and close together makes it more believable that she would snap and burn the entire city.

 

[St. Widge]

Looking back, she's rally been on this path for a while. Her insistence to Jon not to tell anyone about his parents. All the way back to when she burnt Sam's father and brother for not bending the knee, she's shown signs of "Mad Queen."

Probably longer than that really. I mean, think about her reaction to Drogo pouring molten gold over her brother. I know she hated him, but he was her brother and she seemed kind of happy about it in the end. She also burned the witch who poisoned Drogo and stole her child. It seemed like reasonable revenge at the time, but in retrospect, maybe it was a bit much to burn her and maybe it was a hint regarding how much she loved to burn people. Then she burned several in Mareen with questionable justification. And, she was willing to burn all of the Dotkraki Kahls at Vaes Dothrak. I mean, she could have just escaped, but instead, she decided to burn them all so that she could claim the Dothraki hoard to further her own interests. And it was likely really against the interests of the Dothraki who she planned to tame when she got to Westeros.

 

[GeauxWhoDats]

Veering off just a tad. I am not sure how I came across this but once I found one I found 20 of them. The Mountain is a very popular Ad Spokesman for Water and Vodka in Iceland.

SodaStream






Icelandic Mountain Vodka

 

[livefromDC]

While I do agree that the last two seasons have been rushed and as a result the dialogue has not been as good and some things could have been handled better, I will never understand complaints about Dany turning into the Mad Queen. It's been telegraphed since the very start of the series and hints have been dropped over the last 10 years. And in last season and this season in particular we have seen Dany suffer loss after loss and the loss of the love that she craved since she grew up with no love from her brother or anyone else. Hell, she was so messed up she fell in love with a dude who raped her, Drogo. Then the final straw is when her only true friend that is left is executed and her last wish is for her to burn the city. But they weren't done. She also after that realizes (whether true or a product of a paranoid mind) that the one man she though she found love with, had betrayed her and so had the only trusted advisors she had left. I mean, if that doesn' explain her going Mad Queen satisfactorily, I'm not sure what you want. Did you need to see the chemical imbalances slowly building in blood test after blood test over 5 years?

Could they stretched these most recent events over another two seasons? Sure. But I don't think it would make it any more believable and I actually think the fact that they happened so quickly and close together makes it more believable that she would snap and burn the entire city.

We get the conclusion drawn from the events that have occurred. You could see it coming a mile away. No one is trying to understand how we got to this point. The point of contention is with the development. For example, yeah losing Missandei really hurt her. We can logically follow that. Losing Missandei because Euron and his ominopent super fleet kidnapped Missandei and Yara Greyjoy, etc., those things are developmental in nature. The storytelling is no longer really good.

I can follow the plot of , I don't know, "Twilight" easy enough, but that doesn't make it good. You're conflating understanding what's going on with what's going on actually making sense. I've pretty much bowed out of this thread after being perhaps the biggest fan here. I've read all the books, all of the histories, I've watched all the seasons numerous times, I've seen all the extraneous HBO videos and animations. I get it. I can like the first 7 seasons and dislike the choices made in this one. And I'm not just saying it sucks. I've outlined what I don't like about the season, the in-continuity, the out of character actions, the definitively poorer dialogue. It's somewhat presumptuous of you to assume that people who don't like the last few episodes because we don't understand the choices made.

 

[saint_drago]

I thought it was telling that they used the "Previously on...." intro scenes to hit us over the head with every reference to the possibility of her breaking bad over 7+ seasons. They didn't have time to flesh out the heel turn so they used that instead.

That intro did a better job of showing her state of mind than anything we saw in the actual episode. The episode showed some dark circles under her eyes, no makeup, not eating, then boom Mad Queen.

 

[saint_drago]

We get the conclusion drawn from the events that have occurred. You could see it coming a mile away. No one is trying to understand how we got to this point. The point of contention is with the development. For example, yeah losing Missandei really hurt her. We can logically follow that. Losing Missandei because Euron and his ominopent super fleet kidnapped Missanei and Yara Greyjoy, etc.

I can follow the plot of , I don't know, "Twilight" easy enough, but that doesn't make it good. You're conflating understanding what's going on with what's going on actually making sense. I've pretty much bowed out of this thread after being perhaps the biggest fan here. I've read all the books, all of the histories, I've watched all the seasons numerous times, I've seen all the extraneous HBO videos and animations. I get it. I can like the first 7 seasons and dislike the choices made in this one. And I'm not just saying it sucks. I've outlined what I don't like about the season, the in-continuity, the out of character actions, the definitively poorer dialogue. It's somewhat presumptuous of you to assume that people who don't like the last few episodes because we don't understand the choices made.

This is such a great point. There seems to be this attitude like, "If you don't like the episode then you just don't get it". It's possible to fully understand the story and dislike some choices that were made in creating that story.

Believe it or not some people liked The Last Jedi. I've seen people defending it by saying things like, "You just don't understand the new direction they're going in". No, I understand the new direction they're going in, I just happen to also hate that direction. I understand the story but I'm baffled by some of the choices they made.

And the more I see, "Well they just didn't have time" the more it's ticking me off. They chose to not have time! If you choose to rush through something then you can't use the time crunch as an excuse lol. "I'm sorry I'm late to work. I decided to sleep in so it was just unavoidable."

 

[Tater]

Saw this theory posted.

If Arya fulfills Melisandre’s prophecy by offing Daenerys, who has green eyes, she would have killed a representation of both fire (Dany) and ice (the Night King). This is a majorpiece of evidence that she’s the Prince That Was Promised, considering the prince’s ~song~ is the “song of ice and fire.

 

[St. Widge]

I can follow the plot of , I don't know, "Twilight" easy enough, but that doesn't make it good. You're conflating understanding what's going on with what's going on actually making sense. I've pretty much bowed out of this thread after being perhaps the biggest fan here. I've read all the books, all of the histories, I've watched all the seasons numerous times, I've seen all the extraneous HBO videos and animations. I get it. I can like the first 7 seasons and dislike the choices made in this one. And I'm not just saying it sucks. I've outlined what I don't like about the season, the in-continuity, the out of character actions, the definitively poorer dialogue. It's somewhat presumptuous of you to assume that people who don't like the last few episodes because we don't understand the choices made.

I'm not arguing that you can't think the show now sucks and I'm not saying you don't understand what happened. I'm saying that Dany going mad was well done despite the fact that I agree that lots of other things were not done well in the last 2 years. I also think that you are terribly wrong that the show has become terrible. But, that's your right to think the show now suck. I'm saying that it's just plain wrong to think that Dany turning into the Mad Queen was somehow not developed and didn't make sense which is what was being said.

And, I've already said that I agree the writing got worse once GRRM was no longer working with HBO and that the show has felt rushed and now as well done the last couple years. So, I don't know what you are arguing with me about. Feel free to be miserable about the show.

And for what it's worth, I too have read all the books, all the histories, watched all the seasons at least twice, watched all the HBO extras, and numerous Youtube videos on the history and examination of the show. So, I, like a lot of people here, are just as big a fan as you are. Some of us just happen to disagree that the show has gotten as bad as you think it has. So, if you agree to not tell me I'm not a big enough fan to understand how bad it is, I'll agree to not tell you that you should think it's good.

 

[St. Widge]

This is such a great point. There seems to be this attitude like, "If you don't like the episode then you just don't get it". It's possible to fully understand the story and dislike some choices that were made in creating that story.

That's not at all what I said or implied. I'm just saying that the Dany turn into the Mad Queen was done well. I agree there are many other issues and that people can feel however they want to about whatever they want. Personally, I don't see the point since it's supposed to be entertaining. If I don't like something I stop watching it and ignore it. But, if you or others choose not to do that, it's fine. But don't expect others to not disagree when you post something that they disagree with. And like I said, I was only making the point that the Dany turn was not one of the issues with the last 2 seasons. In fact, it was probably done better than most things.

 

[saint_drago]

Saw this theory posted.

If Arya fulfills Melisandre’s prophecy by offing Daenerys, who has green eyes, she would have killed a representation of both fire (Dany) and ice (the Night King). This is a majorpiece of evidence that she’s the Prince That Was Promised, considering the prince’s ~song~ is the “song of ice and fire.

Personally I think that could be cool. But I'm a huge Arya fan. The Jon Snow Bros might get up in their feeling because their boy never got a chance to do anything this season.

It's been like,

"People are expecting Jon to fight The Night King. We've been setting it up for years so let's go ahead and have Arya stab him."

"People will probably expect Jon to play a major role in defeating Cersei so we're going to let him stagger and stumble around the streets of King's Landing while Dany murders civilians with dragon fire."

"People will probably think it should be Jon that kills the Mad Queen since they've had this romantic, tragic relationship. It makes a lot of sense for Jon to do it and become the Prince Who Was Promised. So let's go ahead and have Brienne of Tarth kill her."

 

[BIG E]

 

[saint_drago]

That's not at all what I said or implied. I'm just saying that the Dany turn into the Mad Queen was done well. I agree there are many other issues and that people can feel however they want to about whatever they want. Personally, I don't see the point since it's supposed to be entertaining. If I don't like something I stop watching it and ignore it. But, if you or others choose not to do that, it's fine. But don't expect others to not disagree when you post something that they disagree with. And like I said, I was only making the point that the Dany turn was not one of the issues with the last 2 seasons. In fact, it was probably done better than most things.

I wasn't referring to you Widge but you just inadvertently created the best quote I have ever seen.

"Don't expect others to not disagree when you post something that they disagree with." - St. Widge, 2019

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

We get the conclusion drawn from the events that have occurred. You could see it coming a mile away. No one is trying to understand how we got to this point. The point of contention is with the development. For example, yeah losing Missandei really hurt her. We can logically follow that. Losing Missandei because Euron and his ominopent super fleet kidnapped Missandei and Yara Greyjoy, etc., those things are developmental in nature. The storytelling is no longer really good.

I can follow the plot of , I don't know, "Twilight" easy enough, but that doesn't make it good. You're conflating understanding what's going on with what's going on actually making sense. I've pretty much bowed out of this thread after being perhaps the biggest fan here. I've read all the books, all of the histories, I've watched all the seasons numerous times, I've seen all the extraneous HBO videos and animations. I get it. I can like the first 7 seasons and dislike the choices made in this one. And I'm not just saying it sucks. I've outlined what I don't like about the season, the in-continuity, the out of character actions, the definitively poorer dialogue. It's somewhat presumptuous of you to assume that people who don't like the last few episodes because we don't understand the choices made.

well a lot of the response to Dany's 'heel turn' is because people saw it as unsupported
responding to that, people will reply, 'here are the 20 or so data points that show the path to that breaking point

those saying 'yeah i get what they were 'trying' to do, but i don't think they pulled it off' - fine, that's what i was getting at with the Dany/Jon love story
BUT
most of the initial reaction was just like 'i don't get why Dany became the big bad all of a sudden